Is PH dead?
Paul (Pablo) Grim
pablo@gorge.net
Mon, 03 Jun 2002 16:40:54 -0700
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I switched over to counseling psychology. Way more interesting and an
endless supply of work to be done....
This is actually true, but I'd still take some Powerhouse work as I spend
mucho dollars on tuition. I guess if I was seriously looking for work, I
would emphasize my project management, analysis, and design skills. These
skills seem universal to me. I mean the typical project is 75% Analysis and
Design, and 25% programming riiiiiighhhhttt??? At least all the projects I
managed were... And if this paradigm is still true, why are all the
employers so intent on hiring a specific technical skill set? As a
programmer I think I can pick up new technical skills in a jiffy. Just give
me the manual. And, if the new skill set is too overwhelming, I just hire a
subcontractor with that expertise.
So, my suggestion is to emphasis your great project management and systems
analysis success stories. eg: my resume has a line something like:
"long history of successful project completion ahead of schedule and under
budget". These PM and SA skills are so much harder learned and more
complex than knowledge in this or that programming language AND they are
skills that few are able to teach which makes them even more rare and
valuable.
Good luck you guys - i'm taking the opportunity to switch careers. Still
I'd travel to OZ or NZ for a job and some site seeing! :)
p
From: "Edis, Bob" <BEdis@usbnc.org>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:16:09 -0500
To: "PowerHouse List (E-mail)" <powerh-l@lists.swau.edu>
Subject: RE: Is PH dead?
I have to agree - learn something new.
The big question is WHAT?
I bought Oracle stock two years ago at about USD45 a share, today it's worth
USD7.32! Two years ago Oracle seemed set to conquer the world, especially
Asia - today it's languishing and Microsoft and IBM are fast eating into its
market share.
A friend of mine dumped PowerHouse and became a Delphi expert. He had to go
back to PH to survive.
Another jumped into BI. Again he had to go back to PH.
What about Java? Two years ago Java was HOT. Rates were sky high. Now PH
contractors get paid as much or more and Java programmers are plentiful.
It's even been taken off the Australian immigration "hot" list as a needed
skill there.
If your employer wont pay for your retraining who will? I'm now doing SQL
Server DBA work but have had no formal training. To get certified would set
me back about USD8,000 and several weeks without pay. I can't afford that
and provide for a family. My BI skills are fast getting out-of-date because
I haven't worked with the tools since last July. Cognos hasn't helped by
forcing us to take and pay for its courses in order to get certified.
We don't WANT to give up on PH because we can't see where else to go, or how
to get there. It is in our self-interest to breath life into the tool, but
learn something else while doing it. :)
I like to here some stories about people who made a successful change. By
that I mean they switched from focusing on PH gigs to another technology or
discipline where they are paid more and get more work AND have as much fun.
Blue
-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Reely [mailto:darren.reely@latticesemi.com]
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 6:02 PM
To: 'powerh-l@lists.swau.edu'
Subject: Re: Is PH dead?
This has been an interesting discussion. Is PH dead? Is PH on life
support? Is there a future in PH?
If all you want to work on is maintenance then you should be fine, for a
while. People have pointed out that this market is shrinking.
If you want more out of your career, PH will not be providing it. As Sam
pointed out, knowing PH does you little good in todays market. As he has
discovered, you'll likely have to spend your own money retraining your self
so you can shift to new possibilities. Start NOW!
If your lucky, you'll be involved with the shift your company will take when
it leaves PH.
My main problem with PH is its limited distribution and interesting job
possibilities. I took my current job to learn new skills that have value to
a long career. As developers I think you have to be selfish enough to think
of your career first, and your attraction to PH later, much later.
Darren
David Morrison - Corporate wrote:
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Sam,
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
We utilize PH on the AS/400 (now iSeries), here in San Diego. We're almost
certainly the only PH-AS/400 shop in the county, and maybe the only PH shop
of any platform left in the county (no PHWeb for us, of course).
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
The AS/400 is kind of like PH - it's got a lot of advantages, but is seen as
old and proprietary by many.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
David Morrison
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam DeLeese [mailto:sdeleese@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 9:40 AM
To: powerh-l@lists.swau.edu
Subject: Is PH dead?
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
Is PowerHouse Dead? Empirical evidence here in Southern California would
suggest that if it is not already dead, it is certainly on life support. I
was laid off last November, and I think I can count on one hand, (okay,
maybe both) the number of PH jobs that have been advertised. Most of these
jobs also required knowledge of Oracle or Manman, neither of which I have.
But the point is, there are vitually no jobs in SoCal for PH programmers. I
was working in an Alpha shop, and for the last year and a half, I was
working almost exclusively with PHWeb. The new management at this company,
which laid me off, has also decided that they do not want to develop anymore
web apps with PHWeb. They think it is too proprietary, they want something
more open. They think it will easier for them to hire web programmers if
what they are developing in is more main stream. Anyway, I am beginning my
8th month of this lay off, and I! have had one phone interview for a
potential PHWeb position (the company was thinking about purchasing PHWeb,
they didn't) and 1 face-to-face interview for a PH programming job, but my
lack of knowledge of Manman ultimately sunk me. I am going to be beginning
classes soon to get a certificate in Oracle DBA and programming. I learned
Powerhouse back when Cognos was still known as Quasar. I love PH and PHWeb,
but for every 1 PH ad, there are at least 15 Oracle ads. What are you going
to do? I have over 15 years of experience with PH on both OpenVMS and MPE
platforms, and I feel as if I am an endangered species, almost extinct.
If anyone in SoCal reads this, I would love to hear your take on the current
job market for PH programmers.
Regards,
Sam DeLeese
sdeleese@deleeseconsulting.com
visit us at WWW.DELEESECONSULTING.COM <http://WWW.DELEESECONSULTING.COM>
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
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Re: Is PH dead?
I switched over to counseling psychology. Way more interesting and an=
endless supply of work to be done....
This is actually true, but I'd still take some Powerhouse work as I spend m=
ucho dollars on tuition. I guess if I was seriously looking for work, =
I would emphasize my project management, analysis, and design skills. =
These skills seem universal to me. I mean the typical project is 75% A=
nalysis and Design, and 25% programming riiiiiighhhhttt??? At least al=
l the projects I managed were... And if this paradigm is still true, w=
hy are all the employers so intent on hiring a specific technical skill set?=
As a programmer I think I can pick up new technical skills in a jiffy=
. Just give me the manual. And, if the new skill set is too over=
whelming, I just hire a subcontractor with that expertise.
So, my suggestion is to emphasis your great project management and systems =
analysis success stories. eg: my resume has a line somethi=
ng like: "long history of successful project completion ahe=
ad of schedule and under budget". These PM and SA skills ar=
e so much harder learned and more complex than knowledge in this or that pro=
gramming language AND they are skills that few are able to teach which makes=
them even more rare and valuable.
Good luck you guys - i'm taking the opportunity to switch careers. St=
ill I'd travel to OZ or NZ for a job and some site seeing! :)
p
From: "Edis, Bob" <BEdis@usbnc.org>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:16:09 -0500
To: "PowerHouse List (E-mail)" <powerh-l@lists.swau.edu=
>
Subject: RE: Is PH dead?
I have =
to agree - learn something new.
The big question is=
WHAT?
I bought Oracle sto=
ck two years ago at about USD45 a share, today it's worth USD7.32! Two=
years ago Oracle seemed set to conquer the world, especially Asia - today i=
t's languishing and Microsoft and IBM are fast eating into its market share.=
A friend of mine du=
mped PowerHouse and became a Delphi expert. He had to go back to PH to=
survive.
Another jumped into=
BI. Again he had to go back to PH.
What about Java? &n=
bsp;Two years ago Java was HOT. Rates were sky high. Now PH cont=
ractors get paid as much or more and Java programmers are plentiful. I=
t's even been taken off the Australian immigration "hot" list as a=
needed skill there.
If your employer wo=
nt pay for your retraining who will? I'm now doing SQL Server DBA work=
but have had no formal training. To get certified would set me back a=
bout USD8,000 and several weeks without pay. I can't afford that and p=
rovide for a family. My BI skills are fast getting out-of-date because=
I haven't worked with the tools since last July. Cognos hasn't helped=
by forcing us to take and pay for its courses in order to get certified.
We don't WANT to gi=
ve up on PH because we can't see where else to go, or how to get there. &nbs=
p;It is in our self-interest to breath life into the tool, but learn somethi=
ng else while doing it. :)
I like to here some=
stories about people who made a successful change. By that I mean the=
y switched from focusing on PH gigs to another technology or discipline wher=
e they are paid more and get more work AND have as much fun.
Blue
-----Original Message-----<=
BR>
From: Darren Reely [mailto:darren.reely@latticesemi.com]
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 6:02 PM
To: 'powerh-l@lists.swau.edu'
Subject: Re: Is PH dead?
This has been an interesting discussion. Is PH dead? Is =
PH on life support? Is there a future in PH?
If all you want to work on is maintenance then you should be fine, for a wh=
ile. People have pointed out that this market is shrinking.
If you want more out of your career, PH will not be providing it. As =
Sam pointed out, knowing PH does you little good in todays market. As =
he has discovered, you'll likely have to spend your own money retraining you=
r self so you can shift to new possibilities. Start NOW!
If your lucky, you'll be involved with the shift your company will take whe=
n it leaves PH.
My main problem with PH is its limited distribution and interesting job pos=
sibilities. I took my current job to learn new skills that have value =
to a long career. As developers I think you have to be selfish enough =
to think of your career first, and your attraction to PH later, much later.<=
BR>
Darren
David Morrison - Corporate wrote:
@font-face { font-family: Tahoma; } @page Section1 {size: 8.5in=
11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin: .5in; mso-foo=
ter-margin: .5in; mso-paper-source: 0; } P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARG=
IN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-parent:=
""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "=
Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt;=
FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-parent: ""; m=
so-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman&=
quot; } DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: &=
quot;Times New Roman"; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: =
widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman" } A:link =
{ COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single } SPAN.Mso=
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} A:visited { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: singl=
e } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; tex=
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IN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-fa=
mily: "Times New Roman"; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bott=
om-alt: auto; mso-pagi: widow-orphan } SPAN.EmailStyle19 { COLOR: navy; mso-=
style-type: personal-reply; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-famil=
y: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial } DIV.Se=
ction1 { page: Section1 }
Sam,
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> &nbs=
p;<!--[endif]-->
We utilize PH on the AS/400 (now iSeries)=
, here in San Diego. We're almost certainly the only PH-AS/400 s=
hop in the county, and maybe the only PH shop of any platform left in the co=
unty (no PHWeb for us, of course).
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> &nbs=
p;<!--[endif]-->
The AS/400 is kind of like PH - it's got =
a lot of advantages, but is seen as old and proprietary by many.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> &nbs=
p;<!--[endif]-->
David Morrison
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> &nbs=
p;<!--[endif]-->
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam DeLeese [mailto:sdeleese@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 9:40 AM
To: powerh-l@lists.swau.edu
Subject: Is PH dead?
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <=
;!--[endif]-->
Is PowerHouse Dead? Empirical evidence h=
ere in Southern California would suggest that if it is not already dead, it =
is certainly on life support. I was laid off last November, and I thin=
k I can count on one hand, (okay, maybe both) the number of PH jobs that hav=
e been advertised. Most of these jobs also required knowledge o=
f Oracle or Manman, neither of which I have. But the point is, there a=
re vitually no jobs in SoCal for PH programmers. I was working in an A=
lpha shop, and for the last year and a half, I was working almost exclusivel=
y with PHWeb. The new management at this company, which laid me off, h=
as also decided that they do not want to develop anymore web apps with PHWeb=
. They think it is too proprietary, they want something more open. &nb=
sp;They think it will easier for them to hire web programmers if what they a=
re developing in is more main stream. Anyway, I am beginning my 8th mo=
nth of this lay off, and I! have had one phone interview for a potential PHW=
eb position (the company was thinking about purchasing PHWeb, they didn't) a=
nd 1 face-to-face interview for a PH programming job, but my lack of knowled=
ge of Manman ultimately sunk me. I am going to be beginning classes so=
on to get a certificate in Oracle DBA and programming. I learned Power=
house back when Cognos was still known as Quasar. I love PH and PHWeb,=
but for every 1 PH ad, there are at least 15 Oracle ads. What are you=
going to do? I have over 15 years of experience with PH on both OpenV=
MS and MPE platforms, and I feel as if I am an endangered species, almost ex=
tinct.
If anyone in SoCal reads this, I would love to=
hear your take on the current job market for PH programmers.
Regards,
Sam DeLeese
sdeleese@deleeseconsulting.com
visit us at WWW.DELEESECONSULTING.COM <http://WWW.DELEESECONSULTING.COM&=
gt;
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <=
;!--[endif]-->
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! <http://rd.yahoo.com/welcome/*http://fifaworldcup.yaho=
o.com> - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
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