Is PH dead?
Edis, Bob
BEdis@usbnc.org
Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:16:09 -0500
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I have to agree - learn something new.
The big question is WHAT?
I bought Oracle stock two years ago at about USD45 a share, today it's worth
USD7.32! Two years ago Oracle seemed set to conquer the world, especially
Asia - today it's languishing and Microsoft and IBM are fast eating into its
market share.
A friend of mine dumped PowerHouse and became a Delphi expert. He had to go
back to PH to survive.
Another jumped into BI. Again he had to go back to PH.
What about Java? Two years ago Java was HOT. Rates were sky high. Now PH
contractors get paid as much or more and Java programmers are plentiful.
It's even been taken off the Australian immigration "hot" list as a needed
skill there.
If your employer wont pay for your retraining who will? I'm now doing SQL
Server DBA work but have had no formal training. To get certified would set
me back about USD8,000 and several weeks without pay. I can't afford that
and provide for a family. My BI skills are fast getting out-of-date because
I haven't worked with the tools since last July. Cognos hasn't helped by
forcing us to take and pay for its courses in order to get certified.
We don't WANT to give up on PH because we can't see where else to go, or how
to get there. It is in our self-interest to breath life into the tool, but
learn something else while doing it. :)
I like to here some stories about people who made a successful change. By
that I mean they switched from focusing on PH gigs to another technology or
discipline where they are paid more and get more work AND have as much fun.
Blue
-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Reely [mailto:darren.reely@latticesemi.com]
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 6:02 PM
To: 'powerh-l@lists.swau.edu'
Subject: Re: Is PH dead?
This has been an interesting discussion. Is PH dead? Is PH on life
support? Is there a future in PH?
If all you want to work on is maintenance then you should be fine, for a
while. People have pointed out that this market is shrinking.
If you want more out of your career, PH will not be providing it. As Sam
pointed out, knowing PH does you little good in todays market. As he has
discovered, you'll likely have to spend your own money retraining your self
so you can shift to new possibilities. Start NOW!
If your lucky, you'll be involved with the shift your company will take when
it leaves PH.
My main problem with PH is its limited distribution and interesting job
possibilities. I took my current job to learn new skills that have value to
a long career. As developers I think you have to be selfish enough to think
of your career first, and your attraction to PH later, much later.
Darren
David Morrison - Corporate wrote:
Sam,
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
We utilize PH on the AS/400 (now iSeries), here in San Diego. We're almost
certainly the only PH-AS/400 shop in the county, and maybe the only PH shop
of any platform left in the county (no PHWeb for us, of course).
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
The AS/400 is kind of like PH - it's got a lot of advantages, but is seen as
old and proprietary by many.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
David Morrison
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam DeLeese [ mailto:sdeleese@yahoo.com <mailto:sdeleese@yahoo.com> ]
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 9:40 AM
To: powerh-l@lists.swau.edu <mailto:powerh-l@lists.swau.edu>
Subject: Is PH dead?
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
Is PowerHouse Dead? Empirical evidence here in Southern California would
suggest that if it is not already dead, it is certainly on life support. I
was laid off last November, and I think I can count on one hand, (okay,
maybe both) the number of PH jobs that have been advertised. Most of these
jobs also required knowledge of Oracle or Manman, neither of which I have.
But the point is, there are vitually no jobs in SoCal for PH programmers. I
was working in an Alpha shop, and for the last year and a half, I was
working almost exclusively with PHWeb. The new management at this company,
which laid me off, has also decided that they do not want to develop anymore
web apps with PHWeb. They think it is too proprietary, they want something
more open. They think it will easier for them to hire web programmers if
what they are developing in is more main stream. Anyway, I am beginning my
8th month of this lay off, and I! have had one phone interview for a
potential PHWeb position (the company was thinking about purchasing PHWeb,
they didn't) and 1 face-to-face interview for a PH programming job, but my
lack of knowledge of Manman ultimately sunk me. I am going to be beginning
classes soon to get a certificate in Oracle DBA and programming. I learned
Powerhouse back when Cognos was still known as Quasar. I love PH and PHWeb,
but for every 1 PH ad, there are at least 15 Oracle ads. What are you going
to do? I have over 15 years of experience with PH on both OpenVMS and MPE
platforms, and I feel as if I am an endangered species, almost extinct.
If anyone in SoCal reads this, I would love to hear your take on the current
job market for PH programmers.
Regards,
Sam DeLeese
sdeleese@deleeseconsulting.com <mailto:sdeleese@deleeseconsulting.com>
visit us at WWW.DELEESECONSULTING.COM <http://WWW.DELEESECONSULTING.COM>
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
_____
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=669080323-03062002>I have
to agree - learn something new.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=669080323-03062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=669080323-03062002>The
big question is WHAT?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=669080323-03062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=669080323-03062002>I
bought Oracle stock two years ago at about USD45 a share, today it's worth
USD7.32! Two years ago Oracle seemed set to conquer the world, especially
Asia - today it's languishing and Microsoft and IBM are fast eating into its
market share.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=669080323-03062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=669080323-03062002>A
friend of mine dumped PowerHouse and became a Delphi expert. He had to go
back to PH to survive.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=669080323-03062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=669080323-03062002>Another jumped into BI. Again he had to go back
to PH.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=669080323-03062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=669080323-03062002>What
about Java? Two years ago Java was HOT. Rates were sky high.
Now PH contractors get paid as much or more and Java programmers are
plentiful. It's even been taken off the Australian immigration "hot" list
as a needed skill there.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=669080323-03062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=669080323-03062002>If
your employer wont pay for your retraining who will? I'm now doing SQL
Server DBA work but have had no formal training. To get certified would
set me back about USD8,000 and several weeks without pay. I can't afford
that and provide for a family. My BI skills are fast getting out-of-date
because I haven't worked with the tools since last July. Cognos hasn't
helped by forcing us to take and pay for its courses in order to get
certified.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=669080323-03062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=669080323-03062002>We
don't WANT to give up on PH because we can't see where else to go, or how to get
there. It is in our self-interest to breath life into the tool, but learn
something else while doing it. :)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=669080323-03062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=669080323-03062002>I like
to here some stories about people who made a successful change. By that I
mean they switched from focusing on PH gigs to another technology or discipline
where they are paid more and get more work AND have as much
fun.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=669080323-03062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=669080323-03062002>Blue</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Darren Reely
[mailto:darren.reely@latticesemi.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 03, 2002
6:02 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'powerh-l@lists.swau.edu'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Is PH
dead?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>This has been an interesting discussion. Is PH
dead? Is PH on life support? Is there a future in PH?<BR><BR>If
all you want to work on is maintenance then you should be fine, for a
while. People have pointed out that this market is shrinking.<BR><BR>If
you want more out of your career, PH will not be providing it. As Sam
pointed out, knowing PH does you little good in todays market. As he has
discovered, you'll likely have to spend your own money retraining your self so
you can shift to new possibilities. Start NOW!<BR><BR>If your lucky,
you'll be involved with the shift your company will take when it leaves
PH.<BR><BR>My main problem with PH is its limited distribution and interesting
job possibilities. I took my current job to learn new skills that have
value to a long career. As developers I think you have to be selfish
enough to think of your career first, and your attraction to PH later, much
later.<BR><BR>Darren<BR><BR><BR>David Morrison - Corporate wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="mid:825F869F351ED511A4AC0004ACB81435016C67C0@NTS4"
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle19><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sam,<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle19><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]-->
<!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle19><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We utilize PH on
the AS/400 (now iSeries), here in San Diego.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>We're almost certainly the only PH-AS/400 shop in the county,
and maybe the only PH shop of any platform left in the county (no PHWeb for
us, of course).<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle19><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]-->
<!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle19><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The AS/400 is kind
of like PH - it's got a lot of advantages, but is seen as old and
proprietary by many.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle19><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!--[if
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<!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
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style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s &quot;E-mail
Signature&quot; <span style='mso-element:field-separator'></span></span></font></span><![endif]--><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy">David Morrison</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: navy"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Sam
DeLeese [<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="mailto:sdeleese@yahoo.com">mailto:sdeleese@yahoo.com</A>]<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, June 03, 2002 9:40
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:powerh-l@lists.swau.edu">powerh-l@lists.swau.edu</A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Is PH dead?</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><!--[if !supportEmptyParas]-->
<!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Is PowerHouse Dead?
Empirical evidence here in Southern California would suggest that if it is
not already dead, it is certainly on life support. I was laid off last
November, and I think I can count on one hand, (okay, maybe both) the number
of PH jobs that have been advertised. Most of these jobs also
<EM><I>required </I></EM>knowledge of Oracle or Manman, neither of which I
have. But the point is, there are vitually no jobs in SoCal for PH
programmers. I was working in an Alpha shop, and for the last year and
a half, I was working almost exclusively with PHWeb. The new
management at this company, which laid me off, has also decided that they do
not want to develop anymore web apps with PHWeb. They think it is too
proprietary, they want something more open. They think it will easier
for them to hire web programmers if what they are developing in is more main
stream. Anyway, I am beginning my 8th month of this lay off, and I!
have had one phone interview for a potential PHWeb position (the company was
thinking about purchasing PHWeb, they didn't) and 1 face-to-face interview
for a PH programming job, but my lack of knowledge of Manman ultimately sunk
me. I am going to be beginning classes soon to get a certificate in
Oracle DBA and programming. I learned Powerhouse back when Cognos was
still known as Quasar. I love PH and PHWeb, but for every 1 PH ad,
there are at least 15 Oracle ads. What are you going to do? I
have over 15 years of experience with PH on both OpenVMS and MPE platforms,
and I feel as if I am an endangered species, almost extinct.
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">If anyone in SoCal reads
this, I would love to hear your take on the current job market for PH
programmers.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><BR><BR><BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Sam
DeLeese<BR><A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:sdeleese@deleeseconsulting.com">sdeleese@deleeseconsulting.com</A><BR>visit
us at <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="http://WWW.DELEESECONSULTING.COM">WWW.DELEESECONSULTING.COM</A></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black
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