[Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Stromasys HP3000

Wed May 2 10:58:43 CDT 2012

Brian, since this is a Powerhouse Forum, I was referring to PH only seeing
80 characters on 3000's. I assumed it was the same with other languages but
I only use PH on 3000.

If I had my choice of editors, it would have been the Vax EDT over all
others. I presently use VIM on windows and VI on Unix/Linux because it works
on those platforms. It was a PITA to learn, but once I did, I was back up to
my performance I had on Vax, 20 years ago.

RANT ON

My coworkers use EDITOR and I have to constantly tell them to UNNUMBER the
damn source code. It drives me crazy when you try to download it for
conversion.

Image is a glorified file server and not worth the time and effort. Of
course it works seamlessly with the operating system, it doesn't do much,
and you still have to buy other tools to maintain it.

I converted an entire 1500 program system out of Image back to KSAM and
experienced at least a 50% increase in performance. Once I did that the
company realized the cost vs. performance staying with 3000's and decided to
spend the money on Unix (this was in 1995). I didn't like Unix at first, but
it grows on you.I still prefer DOS, but even microSHAFT is going to screw
with that eventually.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but if anyone is at a cross-roads with their
3000, I am sick of people coming up with these emulation packages to suck
more money out of companies and eventually cause PH to be pegged as the
problem. Remember people, you just added another layer to your application
and now you need support for it also!!!! 

And then there are the people who promise a complete conversion to another
language "automagically".what a pile of crap.

PH runs very well, it is the best language out there, in my opinion. I can
develop way faster than anyone else can with these new languages. 

Just convert to a real database and put the application on a platform that
cost virtually nothing to run/maintain. Then the company will see that the
investment in the current system is worth maintaining. Or at least use it
until you migrate pieces of the application to another language as you learn
it. 

BABY STEPS. That's my rule. 

I have source code that runs on Windows, Linux, Unix, MPE and Vax VMS
without changing anything.

Tell me another language that can be that portable.

I can convert an entire application from PH on any platform to Powerhouse
for Windows/Linux in 3-9 months depending on the size and complexity of the
application. 

Your people have valuable knowledge and skills, don't throw them away on
some "newer-is-better" ideology. That stuff you are going to invest in will
be obsolete in a few years and you will be back in the same place all over
again. Your data is the important part.move it, improve it and treasure it.
New programmers will always tell you what they use is better, these people
can't design a transaction application worth a damn.

Ken

Powerhouse Programmer till the END

PS, Bob, get me a working MySQL version so I can create more applications
with PH at a reasonable cost.

RANT OFF

From: Brian Stephens [mailto:bws001 at gmail.com] 
Sent: May 2, 2012 9:39 AM
To: Ken Langendock
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Stromasys HP3000

Ken.. I worked on MPE for almost 30 years (Started on a series III).. I
disagree with you.
I have worked on the same systems as you have and more..

MPE is a very robust OS , the database very solid..  IF you are trying to
use if as SQL compliant that is your first mistake.. It isn't and It will
never be.

The real strength was the languages and how seamless they were to the DB..
HP Cobol was far more forgiving and intuitive then any other COBOL I have
worked on..the interoperability and feel between the languages was superior
to anything else I ever worked on.. I worked in SPL, RPG, Basic, Fortran,
Cobol and C on the 3K.. 

Not sure what languages you are working in but I've never had an issue with
editors or source code that can't go beyond 80 characters(other then RPG &
Cobol for obvious reasons).. If you have these limitations you might want to
explore quad or q-edit or maybe even Ultra edit. 

For Powerhouse VMS and RDB may be a better combination.. But VMS wasn't
marketed in the same space as MPE. However until Oracle bought RDB, RDB
wasn't as roubst or seamless as is it now. 

Am I sad MPE is gone and the installed base shrinking? Yep... 
Was it inevitable? Sure was..  
Do I think it needs a bullet? No.. It was the root of Tandems NON-STOP OS
and others..  

On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 7:26 AM, Ken Langendock <ken.langendock at rogers.com>
wrote:

Why would anyone want to extend the life of such a shitty operating system
and such a shitty database?

I have worked on MPE for over a decade now, I have worked on VaxVMS,
Windows, Linux and Unix.

MPE is a single tiered operating system and it is limited to 8 characters.
The source code cannot go over 80 characters and the editor is a line
editor.

The MPE/ix product line was supposed to be bring the O/S into the 20th
Century, but they discontinued in 2010.

I have worked on "Turtle" Image, Oracle, MySQL and even SQL server a
little.Image is the worst database out there.

HP keeps putting band-aids on its database to make it "SQL" compliant.

Seriously, put a bullet in this O/S and Database and move on. If not for
your companies sake but for your carrier's sake.

Moving to another O/S and Database is NOT that difficult. You can still use
your PH code and learn something new at the same time.

Once there, you can re-train yourself with something new while still keeping
your application up and running.

Sorry for the rant, but if the company that make the damn O/S doesn't want
to support it, why should we.

Ken

If you want to migrate your app off the HP, send me an email and I will
guide you thru the process..FREE OF CHARGE!

From: powerh-l-bounces+ken.langendock=rogers.com at lists.sowder.com
[mailto:powerh-l-bounces+ken.langendock
<mailto:powerh-l-bounces%2Bken.langendock> =rogers.com at lists.sowder.com] On
Behalf Of anne.quirke
Sent: May 2, 2012 7:26 AM
To: powerh-l at lists.sowder.com
Subject: [Bulk] Stromasys HP3000

All,

I have been watching the recent discussion regarding "the Death" of
Powerhouse and was wondering if any of you out there have looked closely at
the Stromasys offering of a Virtualised Hp3000 (MPE/ix). As hardware
(availability / support etc ) is a key factor which brings the "migration"
discussion to the fore, virtualisation, on paper, offers some solution.
Understand that its just released, has anyone investigated or heard any
negatives/positives of going down this route.

Thanks

 Anne

Anne Quirke

Uturn Ltd
Reshaping Technology
.. turning creative ideas into realistic solutions... 

M.     +353878383550 <tel:%2B353878383550> 
E.     anne.quirke at uturn.ie

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Thanks

Brian Stephens

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