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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Brian, since this is a Powerhouse Forum, I was referring to PH only seeing 80 characters on 3000’s. I assumed it was the same with other languages but I only use PH on 3000.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If I had my choice of editors, it would have been the Vax EDT over all others. I presently use VIM on windows and VI on Unix/Linux because it works on those platforms. It was a PITA to learn, but once I did, I was back up to my performance I had on Vax, 20 years ago.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>RANT ON<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>My coworkers use EDITOR and I have to constantly tell them to UNNUMBER the damn source code. It drives me crazy when you try to download it for conversion.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Image is a glorified file server and not worth the time and effort. Of course it works seamlessly with the operating system, it doesn’t do much, and you still have to buy other tools to maintain it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I converted an entire 1500 program system out of Image back to KSAM and experienced at least a 50% increase in performance. Once I did that the company realized the cost vs. performance staying with 3000’s and decided to spend the money on Unix (this was in 1995). I didn’t like Unix at first, but it grows on you…I still prefer DOS, but even microSHAFT is going to screw with that eventually.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’m not trying to pick a fight, but if anyone is at a cross-roads with their 3000, I am sick of people coming up with these emulation packages to suck more money out of companies and eventually cause PH to be pegged as the problem. Remember people, you just added another layer to your application and now you need support for it also!!!! <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And then there are the people who promise a complete conversion to another language “automagically”…what a pile of crap.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>PH runs very well, it is the best language out there, in my opinion. I can develop way faster than anyone else can with these new languages. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Just convert to a real database and put the application on a platform that cost virtually nothing to run/maintain. Then the company will see that the investment in the current system is worth maintaining. Or at least use it until you migrate pieces of the application to another language as you learn it. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>BABY STEPS. That’s my rule. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have source code that runs on Windows, Linux, Unix, MPE and Vax VMS without changing anything.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Tell me another language that can be that portable.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I can convert an entire application from PH on any platform to Powerhouse for Windows/Linux in 3-9 months depending on the size and complexity of the application. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Your people have valuable knowledge and skills, don’t throw them away on some “newer-is-better” ideology. That stuff you are going to invest in will be obsolete in a few years and you will be back in the same place all over again. Your data is the important part…move it, improve it and treasure it. New programmers will always tell you what they use is better, these people can’t design a transaction application worth a damn.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ken<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Powerhouse Programmer till the END<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>PS, Bob, get me a working MySQL version so I can create more applications with PH at a reasonable cost.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>RANT OFF<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Brian Stephens [mailto:bws001@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> May 2, 2012 9:39 AM<br><b>To:</b> Ken Langendock<br><b>Subject:</b> [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Stromasys HP3000<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Ken.. I worked on MPE for almost 30 years (Started on a series III).. I disagree with you.<br>I have worked on the same systems as you have and more..<br><br>MPE is a very robust OS , the database very solid.. IF you are trying to use if as SQL compliant that is your first mistake.. It isn't and It will never be.<br><br>The real strength was the languages and how seamless they were to the DB.. HP Cobol was far more forgiving and intuitive then any other COBOL I have worked on..the interoperability and feel between the languages was superior to anything else I ever worked on.. I worked in SPL, RPG, Basic, Fortran, Cobol and C on the 3K.. <br><br>Not sure what languages you are working in but I've never had an issue with editors or source code that can't go beyond 80 characters(other then RPG & Cobol for obvious reasons).. If you have these limitations you might want to explore quad or q-edit or maybe even Ultra edit. <br><br><br>For Powerhouse VMS and RDB may be a better combination.. But VMS wasn't marketed in the same space as MPE. However until Oracle bought RDB, RDB wasn't as roubst or seamless as is it now. <br><br>Am I sad MPE is gone and the installed base shrinking? Yep... <br>Was it inevitable? Sure was.. <br>Do I think it needs a bullet? No.. It was the root of Tandems NON-STOP OS and others.. <br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 7:26 AM, Ken Langendock <<a href="mailto:ken.langendock@rogers.com" target="_blank">ken.langendock@rogers.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Why would anyone want to extend the life of such a shitty operating system and such a shitty database?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have worked on MPE for over a decade now, I have worked on VaxVMS, Windows, Linux and Unix.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>MPE is a single tiered operating system and it is limited to 8 characters. The source code cannot go over 80 characters and the editor is a line editor.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The MPE/ix product line was supposed to be bring the O/S into the 20<sup>th</sup> Century, but they discontinued in 2010.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have worked on “Turtle” Image, Oracle, MySQL and even SQL server a little…Image is the worst database out there.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>HP keeps putting band-aids on its database to make it “SQL” compliant.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Seriously, put a bullet in this O/S and Database and move on. If not for your companies sake but for your carrier’s sake.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Moving to another O/S and Database is NOT that difficult. You can still use your PH code and learn something new at the same time.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Once there, you can re-train yourself with something new while still keeping your application up and running.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sorry for the rant, but if the company that make the damn O/S doesn’t want to support it, why should we.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ken</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If you want to migrate your app off the HP, send me an email and I will guide you thru the process….FREE OF CHARGE!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> powerh-l-bounces+ken.langendock=<a href="mailto:rogers.com@lists.sowder.com" target="_blank">rogers.com@lists.sowder.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:powerh-l-bounces%2Bken.langendock" target="_blank">powerh-l-bounces+ken.langendock</a>=<a href="mailto:rogers.com@lists.sowder.com" target="_blank">rogers.com@lists.sowder.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>anne.quirke<br><b>Sent:</b> May 2, 2012 7:26 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:powerh-l@lists.sowder.com" target="_blank">powerh-l@lists.sowder.com</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Bulk] Stromasys HP3000</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>All,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I have been watching the recent discussion regarding "the Death" of Powerhouse and was wondering if any of you out there have looked closely at the Stromasys offering of a Virtualised Hp3000 (MPE/ix). As hardware (availability / support etc ) is a key factor which brings the "migration" discussion to the fore, virtualisation, on paper, offers some solution. Understand that its just released, has anyone investigated or heard any negatives/positives of going down this route.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thanks</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Anne</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Anne Quirke</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=EN-GB>Uturn Ltd<br>Reshaping Technology<br></span></b><i><span lang=EN-GB>.. turning creative ideas into realistic solutions...</span></i><b><span lang=EN-GB> <br></span></b><span lang=EN-GB><br>M. <a href="tel:%2B353878383550" target="_blank">+353878383550</a><br>E. <a href="mailto:anne.quirke@uturn.ie" target="_blank">anne.quirke@uturn.ie</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The information contained in this e-mail communication and any attached documentation may be privileged or confidential. If you received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message and any attachments. Although this e-mail and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Uturn Limited for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use.<br><br><span style='color:green'>Please consider the environment before printing this email.</span></span></i><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br>--<br>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =<br>Mailing list: <a href="mailto:powerh-l@lists.sowder.com">powerh-l@lists.sowder.com</a><br>Subscribe: 'subscribe' in message body to <a href="mailto:powerh-l-request@lists.sowder.com">powerh-l-request@lists.sowder.com</a><br>Unsubscribe: 'unsubscribe &lt;password&gt;' in message body to <a href="mailto:powerh-l-request@lists.sowder.com">powerh-l-request@lists.sowder.com</a><br><a href="http://lists.sowder.com/mailman/listinfo/powerh-l" target="_blank">http://lists.sowder.com/mailman/listinfo/powerh-l</a><br>This list is closed, thus to post to the list you must be a subscriber.<br>Add 'site:<a href="http://lists.sowder.com" target="_blank">lists.sowder.com</a> powerh-l' to your search terms to search the list archive at Google.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br clear=all><br>-- <br>Thanks<br><br>Brian Stephens<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>