powerh-l Digest, Vol 43, Issue 23
Clifford Zivi
cliffordzivi at verizon.net
Wed Dec 31 07:45:27 CST 2008
Remember that the problem can be duplicated on the test system. My question
is how was the test database created? Did you make a COPY of the production
database and run the test, or did you create a NEW version of the database,
drop data into it, and then run the test? If you made a fresh copy and can
duplicate the problem then I would think it highly unlikely that there is a
corruption issue with Turbo Image and therefore must be something in the
routines causing the problem.
Can you make it happen on the SAME record item every time in your test? Is
it possible to narrow it down to a database to have only a few records in
it?
Thank you,
Clifford Zivi
-----Original Message-----
From: powerh-l-bounces+cliffordzivi=verizon.net at lists.sowder.com
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Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 1:00 PM
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Subject: powerh-l Digest, Vol 43, Issue 23
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Today's Topics:
1. Re:powerh-l Digest, Vol 43, Issue 22 (Alan and Vicki)
2. RE:TurboIMAGE database being corrupted by QTP (Walter J. Murray)
3. RE:powerh-l Digest, Vol 43, Issue 22 (Walter J. Murray)
4. RE:TurboIMAGE database being corrupted by QTP (Ken Langendock)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 14:39:30 -0400
From: Alan and Vicki <vical1 at eastlink.ca>
Subject: Re: powerh-l Digest, Vol 43, Issue 22
To: powerh-l at lists.sowder.com
Message-ID: <FC80AE8DE31C49AC92776C5BE2362B33 at VickiRobertsPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original
Last I knew, QTP uses HP Image intrinsics and does not bypass them. If you
delete entries from a detail dataset, Image will automatic delete the
associated entries in the related automatic master, but not the manual
master. If you try to delete from a manual master and there are associated
detailed records with the key, it will give you an error. If you're not
trying to delete records in this QTP run, then the problem may be with the
database itself, as you seem to already suspect.
My best advice would be to use HP utilities (I believe DBunload/DBload -
can't remember for sure) to clean out your database and start from
scratch -- sounds like it could be corrupted -- perhaps a bad case of
migrating secondaries, or some sort of broken links, etc. In any event, I
would try to get that worked out first and unloading/reloading your database
will give you a nice clean start. If it is one QTP run only that is causing
the issue, then perhaps there is something wonky about it, but without
seeing the code, it is difficult to assess. Another thing to keep in
mind -- at least, from the good ol' days -- it is always recommended to use
a prime number when sizing datasets -- in fact, I think the HP Image manuals
used to have a list of prime numbers in the back of the book for just that
purpose -- it will help eliminate some issues with having key values resolve
to the same address which can ultimately cause corruption in the database.
DBGeneral is a good product, but like most 'cheater' utilities, it does not
do the same thing as the Image utilities when it comes to straightening out
a database -- it may be painful, but if you can swing it, I would try the
clean slate approach first -- make sure you have a good backup of the
database first, of course. When you see these kinds of problem recurring,
it is often indicative of a database that has integrity issues between the
detail and master datasets.
Good luck!
Vicki
----- Original Message -----
From: <powerh-l-request at lists.sowder.com>
To: <powerh-l at lists.sowder.com>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 2:00 PM
Subject: powerh-l Digest, Vol 43, Issue 22
> Send powerh-l mailing list submissions to
> powerh-l at lists.sowder.com
>
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of powerh-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. RE:TurboIMAGE database being corrupted by QTP (Walter J. Murray)
> 2. RE:TurboIMAGE database being corrupted by QTP (Ken Langendock)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 21:42:53 -0800
> From: "Walter J. Murray" <wmurray at surewest.net>
> Subject: RE: TurboIMAGE database being corrupted by QTP
> To: "'Peter Bateman'" <peterbateman808 at hotmail.com>, "'PowerHouse
> List'" <powerh-l at lists.sowder.com>
> Message-ID: <002101c96978$4b4784a0$a0f23e45 at DJFJQK21>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Peter and the group,
>
> I have eliminated QTP from the picture. I can duplicate the problem
> with a COBOL program calling DBPUT directly.
>
> The only way I know to eliminate Bradmark (DBGENERAL) from the picture
> is to rebuild the database using only HP utilities, which I am in the
> process of doing.
>
> I'll post what I learn.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Walter
>
> Walter J. Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: powerh-l-bounces+wmurray=surewest.net at lists.sowder.com
> [mailto:powerh-l-bounces+wmurray=surewest.net at lists.sowder.com] On
> Behalf Of Peter Bateman
> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 10:52 AM
> To: walter murray; PowerHouse List
> Subject: RE: TurboIMAGE database being corrupted by QTP
>
> Hi Walter:
> ?
> ??? You say:- "I can duplicate the problem consistently on a test
> machine."
> ????This is good.
> ??? I would try it without Bradmark in the picture. Just to eliminate
> one vendor.
> ??? If it reproduces without Bradmark great. If not I would call them to
> see
> ??? if they can debug this problem.
> ?
> Regards,
> Peter Bateman
> ?
> ???
> ???
>
>
>> From: wmurray at surewest.ne
>> To: powerh-l at lists.sowder.com
>> Subject: TurboIMAGE database being corrupted by QTP
>> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 20:02:53 -0800
>>
>> [Also posted to HP3000-L]
>>
>> TurboIMAGE database being corrupted by QTP
>>
>> Please help me get to the root of this problem. It looks like either a
>> bug in TurboIMAGE (I hope not!) or a bug in PowerHouse 4GL (hard to
>> imagine).
>>
>> Environment: MPE/iX 7.5 PP3, PowerHouse 8.39.C1.
>>
>> I have this production database that occasionally gets corrupted
> during
>> a QTP run. I can duplicate the problem consistently on a test machine.
>> I don't just mean corrupted with bad data--I mean structural errors in
>> the database. The errors always seem to be associated with a
> particular
>> detail data set. DBGENERAL typically reports the errors as (1) FREE
>> SPACE COUNT INCONSISTENT, (2) DELETE CHAIN MISSING ENTRIES, and (3)
>> DELETE CHAIN BROKEN. Sometimes there are also structural errors
> related
>> to the paths between this detail data set and the two related
> automatic
>> masters. I can repair the damage with DBGENERAL, but the database gets
>> corrupted again in a few days.
>>
>> QTP reports the problem with these error messages:
>> "Data access error."
>> "Action Taken: Run terminated."
>> "MPE FILE ERROR 0 RETURNED BY FREADDIR ON ROOT FILE"
>>
>> After QTP terminates the run, I check the database and find it
>> corrupted.
>>
>> I am thinking that TurboIMAGE usually does an excellent job of
>> protecting itself against structural errors. Without using PM, it
>> shouldn't be possible for an application to damage a database in this
>> way. I wonder whether QTP always uses the IMAGE intrinsics, or whether
>> it might sometimes sidestep IMAGE and modify internal database
>> structures directly. Does anybody know?
>>
>> The detail data set in question has about 15,000,000 entries. It is
>> enabled for dynamic expansion, but the current capacity is still equal
>> to the initial capacity, so no expansion has occurred yet. None of the
>> master data sets is enabled for dynamic expansion. The data set is
>> related to two automatic masters, and both of those paths are sorted.
>>
>> I've placed a support call with COGNOS, but they haven't come up with
>> anything yet. I also plan to place calls to HP and Bradmark. Can
>> anybody help in the mean time? Thanks.
>>
>> Walter
>>
>> Walter J. Murray
>>
>>
>>
>> --
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:00:46 -0800
From: "Walter J. Murray" <wmurray at surewest.net>
Subject: RE: TurboIMAGE database being corrupted by QTP
To: <Ken at Langendock.com>, "'PowerHouse List'"
<powerh-l at lists.sowder.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c96a3b$93d89830$a0f23e45 at DJFJQK21>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Ken writes:
> I'm not trying to make anyone mad or anything, but maybe it's time to
> start thinking about moving your application off the HP to a Windows
or
> Linux server.
No offense taken. Believe me, we've been THINKING about moving our
applications for a long time now. However, the wonderful new system
that will replace everything on our HP-3000s is right around the corner.
Has been, for about ten years now. :-)
Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: powerh-l-bounces+wmurray=surewest.net at lists.sowder.com
[mailto:powerh-l-bounces+wmurray=surewest.net at lists.sowder.com] On
Behalf Of Ken Langendock
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 6:48 AM
To: 'PowerHouse List'
Subject: RE: TurboIMAGE database being corrupted by QTP
I'm not trying to make anyone mad or anything, but maybe it's time to
start
thinking about moving your application off the HP to a Windows or Linux
server. The HP has been a rock-solid platform for 20 years but the rest
of
the machines are making leaps and bounds in the performance and
maintainability areas.
The performance gains are staggering depending on the HP machine you
have.
Once your application is converted you are simply copying your
application
from one machine to another for hardware upgrades. Extremely easy.
The power of Oracle as a database is something you can't imagine until
you
have taken your application and converted it.
Ken.
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1867 - Release Date:
28/12/2008
2:23 PM
--
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:14:20 -0800
From: "Walter J. Murray" <wmurray at surewest.net>
Subject: RE: powerh-l Digest, Vol 43, Issue 22
To: "'Alan and Vicki'" <vical1 at eastlink.ca>,
<powerh-l at lists.sowder.com>
Message-ID: <001001c96a3d$78d516b0$a0f23e45 at DJFJQK21>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Vicki and the group,
Thanks for the suggestions.
I am confident now that QTP is not the problem. I don't believe it is
doing anything it shouldn't in terms of bypassing IMAGE.
I will fix things with a DBUNLOAD and a DBLOAD to a freshly created
database.
Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: powerh-l-bounces+wmurray=surewest.net at lists.sowder.com
[mailto:powerh-l-bounces+wmurray=surewest.net at lists.sowder.com] On
Behalf Of Alan and Vicki
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 10:40 AM
To: powerh-l at lists.sowder.com
Subject: Re: powerh-l Digest, Vol 43, Issue 22
Last I knew, QTP uses HP Image intrinsics and does not bypass them. If
you
delete entries from a detail dataset, Image will automatic delete the
associated entries in the related automatic master, but not the manual
master. If you try to delete from a manual master and there are
associated
detailed records with the key, it will give you an error. If you're not
trying to delete records in this QTP run, then the problem may be with
the
database itself, as you seem to already suspect.
My best advice would be to use HP utilities (I believe DBunload/DBload -
can't remember for sure) to clean out your database and start from
scratch -- sounds like it could be corrupted -- perhaps a bad case of
migrating secondaries, or some sort of broken links, etc. In any event,
I
would try to get that worked out first and unloading/reloading your
database
will give you a nice clean start. If it is one QTP run only that is
causing
the issue, then perhaps there is something wonky about it, but without
seeing the code, it is difficult to assess. Another thing to keep in
mind -- at least, from the good ol' days -- it is always recommended to
use
a prime number when sizing datasets -- in fact, I think the HP Image
manuals
used to have a list of prime numbers in the back of the book for just
that
purpose -- it will help eliminate some issues with having key values
resolve
to the same address which can ultimately cause corruption in the
database.
DBGeneral is a good product, but like most 'cheater' utilities, it does
not
do the same thing as the Image utilities when it comes to straightening
out
a database -- it may be painful, but if you can swing it, I would try
the
clean slate approach first -- make sure you have a good backup of the
database first, of course. When you see these kinds of problem
recurring,
it is often indicative of a database that has integrity issues between
the
detail and master datasets.
Good luck!
Vicki
----- Original Message -----
From: <powerh-l-request at lists.sowder.com>
To: <powerh-l at lists.sowder.com>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 2:00 PM
Subject: powerh-l Digest, Vol 43, Issue 22
> Send powerh-l mailing list submissions to
> powerh-l at lists.sowder.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.sowder.com/mailman/listinfo/powerh-l
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> powerh-l-request at lists.sowder.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> powerh-l-owner at lists.sowder.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of powerh-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. RE:TurboIMAGE database being corrupted by QTP (Walter J. Murray)
> 2. RE:TurboIMAGE database being corrupted by QTP (Ken Langendock)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 21:42:53 -0800
> From: "Walter J. Murray" <wmurray at surewest.net>
> Subject: RE: TurboIMAGE database being corrupted by QTP
> To: "'Peter Bateman'" <peterbateman808 at hotmail.com>, "'PowerHouse
> List'" <powerh-l at lists.sowder.com>
> Message-ID: <002101c96978$4b4784a0$a0f23e45 at DJFJQK21>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Peter and the group,
>
> I have eliminated QTP from the picture. I can duplicate the problem
> with a COBOL program calling DBPUT directly.
>
> The only way I know to eliminate Bradmark (DBGENERAL) from the picture
> is to rebuild the database using only HP utilities, which I am in the
> process of doing.
>
> I'll post what I learn.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Walter
>
> Walter J. Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: powerh-l-bounces+wmurray=surewest.net at lists.sowder.com
> [mailto:powerh-l-bounces+wmurray=surewest.net at lists.sowder.com] On
> Behalf Of Peter Bateman
> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 10:52 AM
> To: walter murray; PowerHouse List
> Subject: RE: TurboIMAGE database being corrupted by QTP
>
> Hi Walter:
> ?
> ??? You say:- "I can duplicate the problem consistently on a test
> machine."
> ????This is good.
> ??? I would try it without Bradmark in the picture. Just to eliminate
> one vendor.
> ??? If it reproduces without Bradmark great. If not I would call them
to
> see
> ??? if they can debug this problem.
> ?
> Regards,
> Peter Bateman
> ?
> ???
> ???
>
>
>> From: wmurray at surewest.ne
>> To: powerh-l at lists.sowder.com
>> Subject: TurboIMAGE database being corrupted by QTP
>> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 20:02:53 -0800
>>
>> [Also posted to HP3000-L]
>>
>> TurboIMAGE database being corrupted by QTP
>>
>> Please help me get to the root of this problem. It looks like either
a
>> bug in TurboIMAGE (I hope not!) or a bug in PowerHouse 4GL (hard to
>> imagine).
>>
>> Environment: MPE/iX 7.5 PP3, PowerHouse 8.39.C1.
>>
>> I have this production database that occasionally gets corrupted
> during
>> a QTP run. I can duplicate the problem consistently on a test
machine.
>> I don't just mean corrupted with bad data--I mean structural errors
in
>> the database. The errors always seem to be associated with a
> particular
>> detail data set. DBGENERAL typically reports the errors as (1) FREE
>> SPACE COUNT INCONSISTENT, (2) DELETE CHAIN MISSING ENTRIES, and (3)
>> DELETE CHAIN BROKEN. Sometimes there are also structural errors
> related
>> to the paths between this detail data set and the two related
> automatic
>> masters. I can repair the damage with DBGENERAL, but the database
gets
>> corrupted again in a few days.
>>
>> QTP reports the problem with these error messages:
>> "Data access error."
>> "Action Taken: Run terminated."
>> "MPE FILE ERROR 0 RETURNED BY FREADDIR ON ROOT FILE"
>>
>> After QTP terminates the run, I check the database and find it
>> corrupted.
>>
>> I am thinking that TurboIMAGE usually does an excellent job of
>> protecting itself against structural errors. Without using PM, it
>> shouldn't be possible for an application to damage a database in this
>> way. I wonder whether QTP always uses the IMAGE intrinsics, or
whether
>> it might sometimes sidestep IMAGE and modify internal database
>> structures directly. Does anybody know?
>>
>> The detail data set in question has about 15,000,000 entries. It is
>> enabled for dynamic expansion, but the current capacity is still
equal
>> to the initial capacity, so no expansion has occurred yet. None of
the
>> master data sets is enabled for dynamic expansion. The data set is
>> related to two automatic masters, and both of those paths are sorted.
>>
>> I've placed a support call with COGNOS, but they haven't come up with
>> anything yet. I also plan to place calls to HP and Bradmark. Can
>> anybody help in the mean time? Thanks.
>>
>> Walter
>>
>> Walter J. Murray
>>
>>
>>
>> --
--
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 09:06:51 -0500
From: "Ken Langendock" <ken.langendock at rogers.com>
Subject: RE: TurboIMAGE database being corrupted by QTP
To: "'PowerHouse List'" <powerh-l at lists.sowder.com>
Message-ID: <000901c96a87$dcf65470$96e2fd50$@langendock at rogers.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250"
I love these companies that think "jumping" to the new technology is the way
to go.
"It will save us money in the long run", what a pile of crap.
Baby steps people; Move your application to a new platform, upgrade to the
new database, implement all the new toys to help your business (Powerplay,
Impromptu, Crystal, whatever). Then Consider changing software...once you
have stripped away your core application from all the other bits and pieces
that were built up over the years.
I have been a Development Manager for a number of years at a number of
companies....it's the same story everywhere you go.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: powerh-l-bounces+ken.langendock=rogers.com at lists.sowder.com
[mailto:powerh-l-bounces+ken.langendock=rogers.com at lists.sowder.com] On
Behalf Of Walter J. Murray
Sent: December 30, 2008 12:01 AM
To: Ken at Langendock.com; 'PowerHouse List'
Subject: [Bulk] RE: TurboIMAGE database being corrupted by QTP
Ken writes:
> I'm not trying to make anyone mad or anything, but maybe it's time to
> start thinking about moving your application off the HP to a Windows
or
> Linux server.
No offense taken. Believe me, we've been THINKING about moving our
applications for a long time now. However, the wonderful new system
that will replace everything on our HP-3000s is right around the corner.
Has been, for about ten years now. :-)
Walter
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1868 - Release Date: 29/12/2008
10:48 AM
------------------------------
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