odd PH/VMS logical name behaviour
Lorry Litman
LLitman@exchange.hsc.mb.ca
Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:20:08 -0600
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I have found the same result testing on PH7.10.G1 under both VMS7.2-2 and
VMS7.3-1.
It appears that we are also using the VMS default of case_blind and from the
result of the test I gather PH is not.
As pointed out, it does make a difference if you use double quotes when
defining the logical name. i.e. $define "test" quoteval is different from
$define test noquoteval
However, I assume because case_blind is on if you do $show logical t* you
will only see the last test logical name that you defined. If you change the
case i.e $def "Test" quoteval, and $def test noquoteval, and do $show
logical t* you will see both.
So it does appear that VMS does distinguish between the two on the define
side but not on the translate side.
To deassign the above you would have to $deas "test" and $deas test.
I've never used a double quote around a logical name so I can't say if this
behaved this way under previous versions of PH & VMS.
Lorry
-----Original Message-----
From: Hamilton, Allison [mailto:Allison.Hamilton@Cognos.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:09 PM
To: 'Lloyd, Gavin'; Chris Sharman
Cc: powerh-l@lists.sowder.com
Subject: RE: odd PH/VMS logical name behaviour
I'm trying to do too many things at once here - never name the logical name
the same as the value or the heading will confuse you.... sigh. You are
correct, if you define the logical name in mixed case, we upshift it and
will not see it since we don't do a case_blind search with trnlnm. If I use
Gavins test case I see the value set by the unquoted gav only. Sorry for
the confusion.
Allison Hamilton
-----Original Message-----
From: powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com
[ mailto:powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com
<mailto:powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com> ]On Behalf Of Lloyd, Gavin
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:50 PM
To: Chris Sharman; Hamilton, Allison
Cc: powerh-l@lists.sowder.com; doug.moffatt@cognos.com
Subject: RE: odd PH/VMS logical name behaviour
We've got OpenVMS V7.1-2 and I tried your code and it reported blank in
quiz (i.e. did not get logical value).
FYI - All our logicals are declared without the speechmarks (e.g. DEFINE
LOG VAL not DEFINE "LOG" "VAL") which uppercases everything - so no
problems.
Did a small test as well if that helps:
<---------------------
DCL> def gav gavval
DCL> def "Gav" gavval2
DCL> sho log G*
(LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)
"GAV" = "GAVVAL"
"Gav" = "GAVVAL2"
---------------------->
Regards,
Gavin Lloyd - FM Global.
-----Original Message-----
From: powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com
[ mailto:powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com
<mailto:powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Sharman
Sent: 10 March 2004 17:11
To: Hamilton, Allison
Cc: powerh-l@lists.sowder.com; doug.moffatt@cognos.com
Subject: Re: odd PH/VMS logical name behaviour
Hamilton, Allison wrote:
> Chris, I think this may be a difference in behaviour between 7.2 and
> 7.3 of OpenVMS because I tried this in 7.10G3, 7.10G5 and 8.30D4 (all
on
> 6.2 of OpenVMS) and 8.40D on 7.2-1 and 8.40D on 7.2-2 of OpenVMS and
> they retrieve the value of Test correctly. I don't have a 7.3 OpenVMS
> system available to me yet, so I can't test it there. Perhaps there
is
> a setting on the logical or in your environment that would affect the
> default behaviour of the logical translation function (trnlnm) that is
> available in 7.3???
>
> I know that OpenVMS is moving more and more into the Posix world which
> requires case sensitivity, so more things behave somewhat differently.
> I don't know if this one is an intentional change or not on the part
of
> OpenVMS. Usually they don't change the default behaviour of things so
> drastically, but who knows.
Curious. Nothing I'm aware of - DCL has always uppercased everything,
and still does, unless you enable the mixed-case behaviour which goes
with the ODS5 file system, which we haven't.
> Prior to 7.3 retrieval using uppercase always retrieved the correct
> value due to the basically uppercase or case insensitive nature of the
> VMS environment. PowerHouse is built with this assumption currently,
> and generally upcases just about everything coming in to ensure it can
> find it.
sys$trnlnm (and lib$get_logical) have always had a LNM$M_CASE_BLIND
option, but it has never been the default behaviour, and still isn't.
DCL f$trnlnm offers case-blind by default, and case-sensitive
optionally. The older (obsolete since about V5) sys$trnlog and
associated lib$ routine may do case-blind by default - I don't recall.
I don't think VMS has ever seen a non-compatible system service change
like you suggest.
Anyone got access to VMS 7.3 and an earlier version to confirm/deny ?
> Allison Hamilton
> Senior Software Engineer
> Cognos Inc.
> Any opinions expressed within this message are mine alone and my
> employer cannot be held accountable for them :-}
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com
> [ mailto:powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com
<mailto:powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com> ]On Behalf Of Chris Sharman
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:30 AM
> To: PowerH List
> Subject: odd PH/VMS logical name behaviour
>
>
> I've got a mixed-case logical name:
> $ def "Test" "MyTest"
>
> $ quiz
> Qz> def mytest char*10 = getsystemval("Test")
> Qz> rep mytest
>
> Reports it as blank - presumably it doesn't find it.
> Defining it as uppercase works fine.
>
> VMS logical names can be defined mixed-case (but are usually
> uppercase). They can be fetched either case-sensitive or case-blind.
>
> Powerhouse would appear to be uppercasing the supplied string, then
> doing a case-sensitive search - not the optimum behaviour ! Be nice if
> it used the string I gave it, and probably set the case-blind flag to
> avoid breaking most existing stuff.
>
> VMS 7.3, PH 7.10G3
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=409244713-11032004>I have
found the same result testing on PH7.10.G1 under both VMS7.2-2 and
VMS7.3-1.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=409244713-11032004>It
appears that we are also using the VMS default of case_blind and from the result
of the test I gather PH is not.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=409244713-11032004>As
pointed out, it does make a difference if you use double quotes when defining
the logical name. i.e. $define "test" quoteval is different from $define test
noquoteval</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=409244713-11032004>However, I assume because case_blind is on if you do
$show logical t* you will only see the last test logical name that you defined.
If you change the case i.e $def "Test" quoteval, and $def test noquoteval, and
do $show logical t* you will see both.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=409244713-11032004>So it
does appear that VMS does distinguish between the two on the define side but not
on the translate side.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=409244713-11032004>To
deassign the above you would have to $deas "test" and $deas
test.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=409244713-11032004>I've
never used a double quote around a logical name so I can't say if this behaved
this way under previous versions of PH & VMS.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=409244713-11032004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=409244713-11032004>Lorry</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=409244713-11032004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=409244713-11032004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=409244713-11032004></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Hamilton, Allison
[mailto:Allison.Hamilton@Cognos.COM]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 10, 2004
3:09 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'Lloyd, Gavin'; Chris Sharman<BR><B>Cc:</B>
powerh-l@lists.sowder.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: odd PH/VMS logical name
behaviour<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<P><FONT size=2>I'm trying to do too many things at once here - never name the
logical name the same as the value or the heading will confuse you.... sigh.
You are correct, if you define the logical name in mixed case, we upshift it
and will not see it since we don't do a case_blind search with trnlnm. If I
use Gavins test case I see the value set by the unquoted gav only. Sorry
for the confusion. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=2>Allison Hamilton</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>From:
powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>[<A
href="mailto:powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com">mailto:powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com</A>]On
Behalf Of Lloyd, Gavin</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004
3:50 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To: Chris Sharman; Hamilton, Allison</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>Cc: powerh-l@lists.sowder.com; doug.moffatt@cognos.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>Subject: RE: odd PH/VMS logical name behaviour</FONT>
</P><BR>
<P><FONT size=2>We've got OpenVMS V7.1-2 and I tried your code and it reported
blank in</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>quiz (i.e. did not get logical value).</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT size=2>FYI - All our logicals are declared without the speechmarks
(e.g. DEFINE</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>LOG VAL not DEFINE "LOG" "VAL") which
uppercases everything - so no</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>problems.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>Did a small test as well if that helps:</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2><---------------------</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>DCL> def
gav gavval</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>DCL> def "Gav" gavval2</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>DCL> sho log G* </FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=2>(LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2> "GAV" = "GAVVAL"</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2> "Gav" =
"GAVVAL2"</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>----------------------></FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>Regards,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Gavin Lloyd - FM
Global.</FONT> </P><BR>
<P><FONT size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>From:
powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>[<A
href="mailto:powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com">mailto:powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com</A>]
On Behalf Of Chris Sharman</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Sent: 10 March 2004
17:11</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To: Hamilton, Allison</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>Cc: powerh-l@lists.sowder.com; doug.moffatt@cognos.com</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>Subject: Re: odd PH/VMS logical name behaviour</FONT> </P><BR>
<P><FONT size=2>Hamilton, Allison wrote:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>
Chris, I think this may be a difference in behaviour between 7.2
and</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> 7.3 of OpenVMS because I tried this in
7.10G3, 7.10G5 and 8.30D4 (all</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>on </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>> 6.2 of OpenVMS) and 8.40D on 7.2-1 and 8.40D on 7.2-2 of OpenVMS
and </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> they retrieve the value of Test
correctly. I don't have a 7.3 OpenVMS</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>> system available to me yet, so I can't test it
there. Perhaps there</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>is </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>> a setting on the logical or in your environment that would affect
the </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> default behaviour of the logical translation
function (trnlnm) that is</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>> available in 7.3???</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> I know that OpenVMS is moving more and more into
the Posix world which</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> requires case sensitivity,
so more things behave somewhat differently.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>> I don't know if this one is an intentional change or not
on the part</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>of </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>>
OpenVMS. Usually they don't change the default behaviour of things
so</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>> drastically, but who knows.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>Curious. Nothing I'm aware of - DCL has always uppercased
everything, </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>and still does, unless you enable the
mixed-case behaviour which goes </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>with the ODS5 file
system, which we haven't.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>> Prior to 7.3 retrieval using uppercase always retrieved
the correct</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> value due to the basically uppercase
or case insensitive nature of the</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>> VMS environment. PowerHouse is built with this
assumption currently, </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> and generally upcases just
about everything coming in to ensure it can</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>> find it.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>sys$trnlnm (and lib$get_logical) have always had a
LNM$M_CASE_BLIND </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>option, but it has never been the
default behaviour, and still isn't.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>DCL f$trnlnm
offers case-blind by default, and case-sensitive </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>optionally. The older (obsolete since about V5) sys$trnlog and
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>associated lib$ routine may do case-blind by default -
I don't recall.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>I don't think VMS has ever seen a non-compatible system
service change </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>like you suggest.</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>Anyone got access to VMS 7.3 and an earlier version to confirm/deny
?</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>> Allison Hamilton</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> Senior
Software Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> Cognos Inc.</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> Any opinions expressed within this message are mine alone and
my</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> employer cannot be held accountable for
them :-}</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>>
-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> From:
powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> [<A
href="mailto:powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com">mailto:powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com</A>]On
Behalf Of Chris Sharman</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> Sent: Wednesday, March
10, 2004 6:30 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> To: PowerH List</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> Subject: odd PH/VMS logical name behaviour</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> I've got
a mixed-case logical name:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> $ def "Test"
"MyTest"</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> $
quiz</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> Qz> def mytest char*10 =
getsystemval("Test")</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> Qz> rep mytest</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> Reports it as blank -
presumably it doesn't find it.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> Defining it as
uppercase works fine.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>> VMS logical names can be defined mixed-case (but are usually
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> uppercase). They can be fetched either
case-sensitive or case-blind.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>> Powerhouse would appear to be uppercasing the supplied string,
then </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> doing a case-sensitive search - not the
optimum behaviour ! Be nice if</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>> it used the string I gave it, and probably set the
case-blind flag to </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> avoid breaking most existing
stuff.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> VMS 7.3, PH
7.10G3</FONT> </P><BR>
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