Migrate off PowerHouse? Why?
Charles Finley
cfinley@xformix.com
Tue, 29 Jun 2004 23:58:23 -0700
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Transformix is an HP 3000 application migration and enhancements =
company.
For application enhancement, we do much of our work in the J2EE JAVA =
space.
I am certainly not as dedicated to Powerhouse as many people on this =
list
are. That said, it is a simple statement of fact that in our =
experience,
migrating from Powerhouse on MPE/iX to Powerhouse on UNIX or Windows =
using
an RDBMS such as DB2, Oracle or SQL Server is the easiest migration of =
any
kind we have ever done. It is consierably easier than a 3GL such as =
COBOL
to COBOL migration. I find it difficult to believe that migrating
Powerhouse to anything else can be as easy as a Powerhouse to Powerhouse
migration in almost all cases. (I have not seen any exceptions.)=20
=20
That is not to say that one should not explore other options. However, =
it
is my opinion that any other option will likely take more time than a
Powerhouse to Powrehouse migration. It seems likely that a Powerhouse =
to
______ migration will in almost all cases cost more money (at least in =
the
short term). I beleve this is likely even if the tools in the target
environment are "free" products. The most expensive compnnent in almost =
all
migrations is labor costs. There is no way to escape labor cost when
implementing even freeware. Therefore, if one wants to convert =
Powerhouse
applications to something else, the motive is likely to be something =
other
than saving time or money.
=20
We therefore recommend that our customers first look at the Powerhouse =
to
Powerhouse path when considering the migration of Powerhose =
applications.
The numbers speak for themselves.
=20
Charles Finley
Transformix Computer Corporation
w <http://www.xformix.com> ww.xformix.com
(760)-439-3146=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com
[mailto:powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com] On Behalf Of Deskin, Bob
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 12:52 PM
To: powerh-l@sowder.com
Subject: Migrate off PowerHouse? Why?
From time to time we see postings and comments regarding vendors
providing services for migrating off of PowerHouse, usually followed by =
a
question asking why we, Cognos, don't respond. We do respond, but maybe =
it's
been too subtle.
We respond every time we post regarding how easy it is to migrate
PowerHouse from one platform to another. We respond when we talk about =
the
user interface options PowerHouse provides. We respond when we talk =
about
the IMAGE emulation options, Eloquence and others, that we provide for =
our
migrating HPe3000 customers. We respond when we talk about how =
PowerHouse
continues to provide productivity, scalability, and reliability. We =
respond
when we talk about how legacy applications doesn't mean old but rather =
means
those applications that are critical to running your business, whether =
they
use a terminal interface, Windows GUI, or Web browser. Those =
applications
you can't afford to be without. And we respond by continuing to support
PowerHouse and continuing to release new versions.
Subtle doesn't always work. The web makes it easy to spread
information. But is that information correct? There's only one way to
determine whether something's correct - GET PROOF. PowerHouse has proven
itself over and over.
We know that the people on this list know what PowerHouse can do and
are by nature skeptical of marketing-type claims, whether they're made =
by
Cognos or someone else. But since many of your managers may not know
PowerHouse that well, let's look at what these web sites are saying.
One Web page from a migration vendor asks "What's wrong with your
legacy PowerHouse Application?" The short answer is "Nothing!" Here's a
slightly longer version.
Is PowerHouse quickly fading? No, PowerHouse is certainly not
fading. In Cognos' last fiscal year, PowerHouse earned $29.5 million US. =
Is
that fading? True, the computer for which PowerHouse was originally =
designed
is no longer sold - the original HP3000 using MPE III. But PowerHouse
evolved and is available on it's replacement, the HPe3000 using MPE/iX, =
as
well as OpenVMS, the three industry-leading flavors of UNIX, and Windows
NT/2000/XP. Will PowerHouse continue to evolve? Absolutely. A fading
language doesn't have long-term plans. PowerHouse does. We just released
version 8.4 and sent it to all supported customers. We will issue a
maintenance release late this year, perhaps supporting additional =
platforms,
and another release late next year.
Does PowerHouse lack flexibility and productivity? PowerHouse is by
its nature flexible and productive. The famous PowerHouse productivity
allows you to react quickly to changing business needs. PowerHouse
applications can be character based, but they can also use a Windows GUI =
and
Web browsers.
Is PowerHouse competitive with the Web? You can build a web
application as fast as you can build a QUICK terminal application. The
vendors of PowerHouse alternatives conveniently fail to mention =
PowerHouse's
Web interface. Why is that? Perhaps they would prefer that you not have
complete information. PowerHouse Web gives you a Web interface to your
legacy applications while retaining all of the productivity, =
scalability,
and reliability benefits of PowerHouse.
Is it true that the platforms that PowerHouse runs on are being
phased out? Well, one is, the HPe3000. And that was HP's decision, not =
ours.
But OpenVMS is not being phased out, UNIX is not, and Windows is not. =
The
PowerHouse world is much larger than the HPe3000. We continue to support
PowerHouse on the HPe3000. The recently released version 8.4 included =
the
HPe3000-MPE/iX platform. And we will continue to provide support. And =
that
means that the HPe3000 PowerHouse customer can be assured that there is =
a
viable migration platform for their PowerHouse applications when they =
choose
to migrate.
Why would a PowerHouse application be any more difficult to staff
and manage than anything else? Certainly you have to train your staff. =
But
you have to do that anyway. Maintaining PowerHouse applications requires
less staff and they're more productive. The key is to use the best
technology for the job, not necessarily the newest. Technologies come =
and
go. You want something that's solid and that's proven itself.
Character-based applications aren't necessarily more difficult to
learn. Technology won't make up for application design. But unlike many
technologies, PowerHouse gives you the option of using the interface =
that's
best for the application at hand. There are times when character-based =
entry
is most efficient and there are times when the Web browser or a Windows =
GUI
is best. PowerHouse gives you all three. What else does with the same
productivity?
What would they have you replace PowerHouse with? Java or .NET. Yes,
PowerHouse is proprietary but so are .NET and Java. .NET belongs to
Microsoft and Java belongs to Sun. So don't let the proprietary argument
fool you. Does PowerHouse run on proprietary systems (MPE/iX and =
OpenVMS)?
Absolutely. It also runs on UNIX, a platform that is considered open and
modern. By the way, did you know that UNIX is older than PowerHouse? And
Windows is certainly not open. What platform options do you get with the
alternative? If you're on MPE/iX or OpenVMS, can they give you a Web
interface and still let you run on your existing platform? PowerHouse =
can!
Will they let you mix and match as needed? PowerHouse can!
Is the alternative really open or do you have to buy into the
vendor's solution? Does their solution require vendor-specific =
libraries? If
so, you're simply buying into their unproven proprietary solution.
PowerHouse support and maintenance pricing has not increased in many
years. When we introduced support for the A and N class HPe3000 =
machines,
costs actually went down. We just released version 8.4 that upgrades
operating system and relational database conformance to current levels. =
And
we added support for new data sources - DB2, DISAM, and Eloquence. We'll =
do
more of that later this year. PowerHouse is not becoming obsolete, =
rather
the opposite is true. PowerHouse code is cheaper to support, maintain, =
and
enhance than the corresponding C, C++, or Java. Why? Because there's far
less source code to deal with. And it's a 4GL. C, C++, and Java are all =
3GLs
with all the issues involved. Object orientation did not solve the 3GL
non-productivity problem.
Do these migration alternatives really give you all the options? Do
they provide an option for the HPe3000 customer who is dependant on =
IMAGE?
PowerHouse does. Not only does PowerHouse support Marxmeier's Eloquence =
on
HP-UX and Windows, but it also works with other IMAGE emulators. That's =
what
"open" is really all about - options.
The bottom line is that if you're migrating, you have lots of
options. Just make sure that the option you pick is actually better than
what you already have. There is no silver bullet. Determine why you are
migrating. Is your platform really obsolete? Will the latest technology
really deliver the promised benefits? Talk to the vendors and talk to
Cognos. Have them prove that they can do what they say they can do. Ask =
for
references and talk to those references. Find out how long the project =
took
and whether it really was successful.
We have thousands of satisfied customers. We have customers who have
successfully migrated - from HPe3000 to UNIX and Windows, from IMAGE to
Eloquence, from IMAGE to relational, from character to the Web. What do =
they
have?
Bob Berry, Doug Moffatt, and Bob Deskin=20
on behalf of the ADT Development Team=20
where developer productivity never goes out of style=20
=20
This message may contain privileged and/or confidential =
information.
If you have received this e-mail in error or are not the intended =
recipient,
you may not use, copy, disseminate or distribute it; do not open any
attachments, delete it immediately from your system and notify the =
sender
promptly by e-mail that you have done so. Thank you.=20
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D062262606-30062004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Transformix is an HP 3000 application migration and =
enhancements=20
company. For application enhancement, we do much of our work in =
the J2EE=20
JAVA space. I am certainly not as dedicated to Powerhouse as many people =
on this=20
list are. That said, it is a simple statement of fact that =
in our=20
experience, m<SPAN class=3D062262606-30062004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>igrating from Powerhouse on MPE/iX to Powerhouse on UNIX or =
Windows using=20
an RDBMS such as DB2, Oracle or SQL Server is =20
the easiest migration of any kind we have ever done. It =
is=20
consierably easier than a 3GL such as COBOL to COBOL migration. I =
find it=20
difficult to believe that migrating Powerhouse to anything else can be =
as easy=20
as a Powerhouse to Powerhouse migration in almost all cases. =
(I have=20
not seen any exceptions.) </FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D062262606-30062004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D062262606-30062004></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D062262606-30062004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D062262606-30062004>That is not to say that one should not =
explore other=20
options. However, it is my opinion that any other option will =
likely take=20
more time than a Powerhouse to Powrehouse migration. It seems =
likely=20
that a Powerhouse to ______ migration will in almost=20
all cases cost more money (at least in the short term). =
I=20
beleve this is likely even if the tools in the target environment are =
"free"=20
products. The most expensive compnnent in almost all migrations is =
labor=20
costs. There is no way to escape labor cost when implementing even =
freeware. Therefore, if one wants to convert Powerhouse =
applications to=20
something else, the motive is likely to be something other than saving =
time or=20
money.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D062262606-30062004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D062262606-30062004></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D062262606-30062004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D062262606-30062004>We therefore recommend that our customers =
first look at=20
the Powerhouse to Powerhouse path when considering the migration of =
Powerhose=20
applications. The numbers speak for =
themselves.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D062262606-30062004><FONT size=3D2><FONT =
face=3DArial><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D062262606-30062004><FONT size=3D2><FONT =
face=3DArial><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff>Charles Finley<BR>Transformix Computer =
Corporation<BR><SPAN=20
class=3D062262606-30062004></SPAN><A =
href=3D"http://www.xformix.com">w<SPAN=20
class=3D062262606-30062004>ww.xformix.com</A></SPAN></FONT></FONT><BR><FO=
NT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>(760)-439-3146 =
</FONT></FONT></DIV></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D062262606-30062004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D062262606-30062004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original =
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com [mailto:powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com] =
<B>On=20
Behalf Of </B>Deskin, Bob<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 29, 2004 12:52=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> powerh-l@sowder.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Migrate off =
PowerHouse?=20
Why?<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
<UL>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From time to time we see postings and =
comments=20
regarding vendors providing services for migrating off of =
PowerHouse,=20
usually followed by a question asking why we, Cognos, don't respond. =
We do=20
respond, but maybe it's been too subtle.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We respond every time we post =
regarding how easy=20
it is to migrate PowerHouse from one platform to another. We respond =
when we=20
talk about the user interface options PowerHouse provides. We =
respond when=20
we talk about the IMAGE emulation options, Eloquence and others, =
that we=20
provide for our migrating HPe3000 customers. We respond when we talk =
about=20
how PowerHouse continues to provide productivity, scalability, and=20
reliability. We respond when we talk about how legacy applications =
doesn't=20
mean old but rather means those applications that are critical to =
running=20
your business, whether they use a terminal interface, Windows GUI, =
or Web=20
browser. Those applications you can't afford to be without. And we =
respond=20
by continuing to support PowerHouse and continuing to release new=20
versions.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Subtle doesn't always work. The web =
makes it easy=20
to spread information. But is that information correct? =
There's only=20
one way to determine whether something's correct - GET PROOF. =
PowerHouse has=20
proven itself over and over.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We know that the people on this list =
know what=20
PowerHouse can do and are by nature skeptical of marketing-type =
claims,=20
whether they're made by Cognos or someone else. But since many of =
your=20
managers may not know PowerHouse that well, let's look at what these =
web=20
sites are saying.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>One Web page from a migration vendor =
asks "What's=20
wrong with your legacy PowerHouse Application?" The short answer is=20
"Nothing!" Here's a slightly longer version.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is PowerHouse quickly fading? No, =
PowerHouse is=20
certainly not fading. In Cognos' last fiscal year, PowerHouse earned =
$29.5=20
million US. Is that fading? True, the computer for which PowerHouse =
was=20
originally designed is no longer sold - the original HP3000 using =
MPE III.=20
But PowerHouse evolved and is available on it's replacement, the =
HPe3000=20
using MPE/iX, as well as OpenVMS, the three industry-leading flavors =
of=20
UNIX, and Windows NT/2000/XP. Will PowerHouse continue to evolve?=20
Absolutely. A fading language doesn't have long-term plans. =
PowerHouse does.=20
We just released version 8.4 and sent it to all supported customers. =
We will=20
issue a maintenance release late this year, perhaps supporting =
additional=20
platforms, and another release late next year.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Does PowerHouse lack flexibility and=20
productivity? PowerHouse is by its nature flexible and productive. =
The=20
famous PowerHouse productivity allows you to react quickly to =
changing=20
business needs. PowerHouse applications can be character based, but =
they can=20
also use a Windows GUI and Web browsers.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is PowerHouse competitive with the =
Web? You can=20
build a web application as fast as you can build a QUICK terminal=20
application. The vendors of PowerHouse alternatives conveniently =
fail to=20
mention PowerHouse's Web interface. Why is that? Perhaps they would =
prefer=20
that you not have complete information. PowerHouse Web gives you a =
Web=20
interface to your legacy applications while retaining all of the=20
productivity, scalability, and reliability benefits of=20
PowerHouse.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is it true that the platforms that =
PowerHouse=20
runs on are being phased out? Well, one is, the HPe3000. And that =
was HP's=20
decision, not ours. But OpenVMS is not being phased out, UNIX is =
not, and=20
Windows is not. The PowerHouse world is much larger than the =
HPe3000. We=20
continue to support PowerHouse on the HPe3000. The recently released =
version=20
8.4 included the HPe3000-MPE/iX platform. And we will continue to =
provide=20
support. And that means that the HPe3000 PowerHouse customer can be =
assured=20
that there is a viable migration platform for their PowerHouse =
applications=20
when they choose to migrate.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Why would a PowerHouse application be =
any more=20
difficult to staff and manage than anything else? Certainly you have =
to=20
train your staff. But you have to do that anyway. Maintaining =
PowerHouse=20
applications requires less staff and they're more productive. The =
key is to=20
use the best technology for the job, not necessarily the newest.=20
Technologies come and go. You want something that's solid and that's =
proven=20
itself.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Character-based applications aren't =
necessarily=20
more difficult to learn. Technology won't make up for application =
design.=20
But unlike many technologies, PowerHouse gives you the option of =
using the=20
interface that's best for the application at hand. There are times =
when=20
character-based entry is most efficient and there are times when the =
Web=20
browser or a Windows GUI is best. PowerHouse gives you all three. =
What else=20
does with the same productivity?</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What would they have you replace =
PowerHouse with?=20
Java or .NET. Yes, PowerHouse is proprietary but so are .NET and =
Java. .NET=20
belongs to Microsoft and Java belongs to Sun. So don't let the =
proprietary=20
argument fool you. Does PowerHouse run on proprietary systems =
(MPE/iX and=20
OpenVMS)? Absolutely. It also runs on UNIX, a platform that is =
considered=20
open and modern. By the way, did you know that UNIX is older than=20
PowerHouse? And Windows is certainly not open. What platform options =
do you=20
get with the alternative? If you're on MPE/iX or OpenVMS, can they =
give you=20
a Web interface and still let you run on your existing platform? =
PowerHouse=20
can! Will they let you mix and match as needed? PowerHouse =
can!</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is the alternative really open or do =
you have to=20
buy into the vendor's solution? Does their solution require =
vendor-specific=20
libraries? If so, you're simply buying into their unproven =
proprietary=20
solution.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>PowerHouse support and maintenance =
pricing has=20
not increased in many years. When we introduced support for the A =
and N=20
class HPe3000 machines, costs actually went down. We just released =
version=20
8.4 that upgrades operating system and relational database =
conformance to=20
current levels. And we added support for new data sources - DB2, =
DISAM, and=20
Eloquence. We'll do more of that later this year. PowerHouse is not =
becoming=20
obsolete, rather the opposite is true. PowerHouse code is cheaper to =
support, maintain, and enhance than the corresponding C, C++, or =
Java. Why?=20
Because there's far less source code to deal with. And it's a 4GL. =
C, C++,=20
and Java are all 3GLs with all the issues involved. Object =
orientation did=20
not solve the 3GL non-productivity problem.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Do these migration alternatives =
really give you=20
all the options? Do they provide an option for the HPe3000 customer =
who is=20
dependant on IMAGE? PowerHouse does. Not only does PowerHouse =
support=20
Marxmeier's Eloquence on HP-UX and Windows, but it also works with =
other=20
IMAGE emulators. That's what "open" is really all about -=20
options.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The bottom line is that if you're =
migrating, you=20
have lots of options. Just make sure that the option you pick is =
actually=20
better than what you already have. There is no silver bullet. =
Determine why=20
you are migrating. Is your platform really obsolete? Will the latest =
technology really deliver the promised benefits? Talk to the vendors =
and=20
talk to Cognos. Have them prove that they can do what they say they =
can do.=20
Ask for references and talk to those references. Find out how long =
the=20
project took and whether it really was successful.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We have thousands of satisfied =
customers. We have=20
customers who have successfully migrated - from HPe3000 to UNIX and =
Windows,=20
from IMAGE to Eloquence, from IMAGE to relational, from character to =
the=20
Web. What do they have?</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bob Berry, Doug Moffatt, and Bob =
Deskin</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>on behalf of the ADT Development =
Team</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>where developer productivity never =
goes out of=20
style</FONT> </P></UL></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<P> <FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>This=20
message may contain privileged and/or confidential information. =
If you=20
have received this e-mail in error or are not the intended recipient, =
you may=20
not use, copy, disseminate or distribute it; do not open any =
attachments,=20
delete it immediately from your system and notify the sender promptly =
by=20
e-mail that you have done so. Thank you.</FONT>=20
</P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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