Migrate off PowerHouse? Why?
Bickel, Jon
BickelJ@usfilter.com
Tue, 29 Jun 2004 16:31:10 -0400
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Bob,
I agree with everything that you say below. I feel fairly safe in saying
that most/all of the members on this list agree, and that we pass these
arguments on to the appropriate decision makers when the opportunity
presents itself. In my experience however, that is the only form of support
that PowerHouse receives when the question of abandonment arises, and that
said form is invariably overwhelmed in the minds of those who decide by the
massive media/industry/cultural hype accompanying other tools/technologies.
I have spent the majority of the last 10 years in full time PowerHouse
development, and have not encountered a single shop that had the articulated
plan of staying on PowerHouse as their long term IT solution. Whether there
was a realistic plan in place to migrate off or not, the upper levels of
management have always regarded PowerHouse as an evil made necessary by
dependency, but one to be eliminated at the earliest opportunity. Again,
this is only my personal experience and certainly not the stance that I have
recommended - Indeed, I have often recommended against such a stance at
length. :-)
You speak of Cognos' subtle response to the parties advocating migration
away from PowerHouse. In this current cultural climate, both in the
industry and in general, I think many can agree that persuasion is achieved
far more frequently from volume of argument than validity and cool sells far
more license/copies than quality. In such an environment, can one
realistically expect word-of-mouth advertising from already disenfranchised
members of the corporate power structure to compete with the kind of
gestaltic hype achieved by those products with regular full page ads in the
trade rags?
Just my .02 with all due respect.
jb
-----Original Message-----
From: Deskin, Bob [mailto:Bob.Deskin@cognos.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 12:52 PM
To: powerh-l@sowder.com
Subject: Migrate off PowerHouse? Why?
From time to time we see postings and comments regarding vendors
providing services for migrating off of PowerHouse, usually followed by a
question asking why we, Cognos, don't respond. We do respond, but maybe it's
been too subtle.
We respond every time we post regarding how easy it is to migrate
PowerHouse from one platform to another. We respond when we talk about the
user interface options PowerHouse provides. We respond when we talk about
the IMAGE emulation options, Eloquence and others, that we provide for our
migrating HPe3000 customers. We respond when we talk about how PowerHouse
continues to provide productivity, scalability, and reliability. We respond
when we talk about how legacy applications doesn't mean old but rather means
those applications that are critical to running your business, whether they
use a terminal interface, Windows GUI, or Web browser. Those applications
you can't afford to be without. And we respond by continuing to support
PowerHouse and continuing to release new versions.
Subtle doesn't always work. The web makes it easy to spread
information. But is that information correct? There's only one way to
determine whether something's correct - GET PROOF. PowerHouse has proven
itself over and over.
We know that the people on this list know what PowerHouse can do and
are by nature skeptical of marketing-type claims, whether they're made by
Cognos or someone else. But since many of your managers may not know
PowerHouse that well, let's look at what these web sites are saying.
One Web page from a migration vendor asks "What's wrong with your
legacy PowerHouse Application?" The short answer is "Nothing!" Here's a
slightly longer version.
Is PowerHouse quickly fading? No, PowerHouse is certainly not
fading. In Cognos' last fiscal year, PowerHouse earned $29.5 million US. Is
that fading? True, the computer for which PowerHouse was originally designed
is no longer sold - the original HP3000 using MPE III. But PowerHouse
evolved and is available on it's replacement, the HPe3000 using MPE/iX, as
well as OpenVMS, the three industry-leading flavors of UNIX, and Windows
NT/2000/XP. Will PowerHouse continue to evolve? Absolutely. A fading
language doesn't have long-term plans. PowerHouse does. We just released
version 8.4 and sent it to all supported customers. We will issue a
maintenance release late this year, perhaps supporting additional platforms,
and another release late next year.
Does PowerHouse lack flexibility and productivity? PowerHouse is by
its nature flexible and productive. The famous PowerHouse productivity
allows you to react quickly to changing business needs. PowerHouse
applications can be character based, but they can also use a Windows GUI and
Web browsers.
Is PowerHouse competitive with the Web? You can build a web
application as fast as you can build a QUICK terminal application. The
vendors of PowerHouse alternatives conveniently fail to mention PowerHouse's
Web interface. Why is that? Perhaps they would prefer that you not have
complete information. PowerHouse Web gives you a Web interface to your
legacy applications while retaining all of the productivity, scalability,
and reliability benefits of PowerHouse.
Is it true that the platforms that PowerHouse runs on are being
phased out? Well, one is, the HPe3000. And that was HP's decision, not ours.
But OpenVMS is not being phased out, UNIX is not, and Windows is not. The
PowerHouse world is much larger than the HPe3000. We continue to support
PowerHouse on the HPe3000. The recently released version 8.4 included the
HPe3000-MPE/iX platform. And we will continue to provide support. And that
means that the HPe3000 PowerHouse customer can be assured that there is a
viable migration platform for their PowerHouse applications when they choose
to migrate.
Why would a PowerHouse application be any more difficult to staff
and manage than anything else? Certainly you have to train your staff. But
you have to do that anyway. Maintaining PowerHouse applications requires
less staff and they're more productive. The key is to use the best
technology for the job, not necessarily the newest. Technologies come and
go. You want something that's solid and that's proven itself.
Character-based applications aren't necessarily more difficult to
learn. Technology won't make up for application design. But unlike many
technologies, PowerHouse gives you the option of using the interface that's
best for the application at hand. There are times when character-based entry
is most efficient and there are times when the Web browser or a Windows GUI
is best. PowerHouse gives you all three. What else does with the same
productivity?
What would they have you replace PowerHouse with? Java or .NET. Yes,
PowerHouse is proprietary but so are .NET and Java. .NET belongs to
Microsoft and Java belongs to Sun. So don't let the proprietary argument
fool you. Does PowerHouse run on proprietary systems (MPE/iX and OpenVMS)?
Absolutely. It also runs on UNIX, a platform that is considered open and
modern. By the way, did you know that UNIX is older than PowerHouse? And
Windows is certainly not open. What platform options do you get with the
alternative? If you're on MPE/iX or OpenVMS, can they give you a Web
interface and still let you run on your existing platform? PowerHouse can!
Will they let you mix and match as needed? PowerHouse can!
Is the alternative really open or do you have to buy into the
vendor's solution? Does their solution require vendor-specific libraries? If
so, you're simply buying into their unproven proprietary solution.
PowerHouse support and maintenance pricing has not increased in many
years. When we introduced support for the A and N class HPe3000 machines,
costs actually went down. We just released version 8.4 that upgrades
operating system and relational database conformance to current levels. And
we added support for new data sources - DB2, DISAM, and Eloquence. We'll do
more of that later this year. PowerHouse is not becoming obsolete, rather
the opposite is true. PowerHouse code is cheaper to support, maintain, and
enhance than the corresponding C, C++, or Java. Why? Because there's far
less source code to deal with. And it's a 4GL. C, C++, and Java are all 3GLs
with all the issues involved. Object orientation did not solve the 3GL
non-productivity problem.
Do these migration alternatives really give you all the options? Do
they provide an option for the HPe3000 customer who is dependant on IMAGE?
PowerHouse does. Not only does PowerHouse support Marxmeier's Eloquence on
HP-UX and Windows, but it also works with other IMAGE emulators. That's what
"open" is really all about - options.
The bottom line is that if you're migrating, you have lots of
options. Just make sure that the option you pick is actually better than
what you already have. There is no silver bullet. Determine why you are
migrating. Is your platform really obsolete? Will the latest technology
really deliver the promised benefits? Talk to the vendors and talk to
Cognos. Have them prove that they can do what they say they can do. Ask for
references and talk to those references. Find out how long the project took
and whether it really was successful.
We have thousands of satisfied customers. We have customers who have
successfully migrated - from HPe3000 to UNIX and Windows, from IMAGE to
Eloquence, from IMAGE to relational, from character to the Web. What do they
have?
Bob Berry, Doug Moffatt, and Bob Deskin
on behalf of the ADT Development Team
where developer productivity never goes out of style
This message may contain privileged and/or confidential information.
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<DIV><SPAN class=410211322-29062004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Bob,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=410211322-29062004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=410211322-29062004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
agree with everything that you say below. I feel fairly safe in saying
that most/all of the members on this list agree, and that we pass these
arguments on to the appropriate decision makers when the opportunity presents
itself. In my experience however, that is the only
form of support that PowerHouse receives when the question of abandonment
arises, and that said form is invariably overwhelmed in the minds of
those who decide by the massive media/industry/cultural hype accompanying other
tools/technologies. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=410211322-29062004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=410211322-29062004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I have
spent the majority of the last 10 years in full time PowerHouse development,
and have not encountered a single shop that had the articulated plan of
staying on PowerHouse as their long term IT solution. Whether there was a
realistic plan in place to migrate off or not, the upper levels of
management have always regarded PowerHouse as an evil made necessary by
dependency, but one to be eliminated at the earliest opportunity. Again,
this is only my personal experience and certainly not the stance that I have
recommended - Indeed, I have often recommended against such a stance at length.
:-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=410211322-29062004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=410211322-29062004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>You
speak of Cognos' subtle response to the parties advocating migration away from
PowerHouse. In this current cultural climate, both in the industry and in
general, I think many can agree that persuasion is achieved far more
frequently from volume of argument than validity and cool sells far more
license/copies than quality. In such an environment, can one realistically
expect word-of-mouth advertising from already disenfranchised members of the
corporate power structure to compete with the kind of gestaltic hype achieved by
those products with regular full page ads in the trade rags?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=410211322-29062004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=410211322-29062004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Just
my .02 with all due respect.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=410211322-29062004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=410211322-29062004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>jb</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=410211322-29062004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Deskin, Bob
[mailto:Bob.Deskin@cognos.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 29, 2004 12:52
PM<BR><B>To:</B> powerh-l@sowder.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Migrate off
PowerHouse? Why?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
<UL>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>From time to time we see postings and comments
regarding vendors providing services for migrating off of PowerHouse,
usually followed by a question asking why we, Cognos, don't respond. We do
respond, but maybe it's been too subtle.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>We respond every time we post regarding how easy
it is to migrate PowerHouse from one platform to another. We respond when we
talk about the user interface options PowerHouse provides. We respond when
we talk about the IMAGE emulation options, Eloquence and others, that we
provide for our migrating HPe3000 customers. We respond when we talk about
how PowerHouse continues to provide productivity, scalability, and
reliability. We respond when we talk about how legacy applications doesn't
mean old but rather means those applications that are critical to running
your business, whether they use a terminal interface, Windows GUI, or Web
browser. Those applications you can't afford to be without. And we respond
by continuing to support PowerHouse and continuing to release new
versions.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subtle doesn't always work. The web makes it easy
to spread information. But is that information correct? There's only
one way to determine whether something's correct - GET PROOF. PowerHouse has
proven itself over and over.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>We know that the people on this list know what
PowerHouse can do and are by nature skeptical of marketing-type claims,
whether they're made by Cognos or someone else. But since many of your
managers may not know PowerHouse that well, let's look at what these web
sites are saying.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>One Web page from a migration vendor asks "What's
wrong with your legacy PowerHouse Application?" The short answer is
"Nothing!" Here's a slightly longer version.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Is PowerHouse quickly fading? No, PowerHouse is
certainly not fading. In Cognos' last fiscal year, PowerHouse earned $29.5
million US. Is that fading? True, the computer for which PowerHouse was
originally designed is no longer sold - the original HP3000 using MPE III.
But PowerHouse evolved and is available on it's replacement, the HPe3000
using MPE/iX, as well as OpenVMS, the three industry-leading flavors of
UNIX, and Windows NT/2000/XP. Will PowerHouse continue to evolve?
Absolutely. A fading language doesn't have long-term plans. PowerHouse does.
We just released version 8.4 and sent it to all supported customers. We will
issue a maintenance release late this year, perhaps supporting additional
platforms, and another release late next year.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Does PowerHouse lack flexibility and
productivity? PowerHouse is by its nature flexible and productive. The
famous PowerHouse productivity allows you to react quickly to changing
business needs. PowerHouse applications can be character based, but they can
also use a Windows GUI and Web browsers.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Is PowerHouse competitive with the Web? You can
build a web application as fast as you can build a QUICK terminal
application. The vendors of PowerHouse alternatives conveniently fail to
mention PowerHouse's Web interface. Why is that? Perhaps they would prefer
that you not have complete information. PowerHouse Web gives you a Web
interface to your legacy applications while retaining all of the
productivity, scalability, and reliability benefits of
PowerHouse.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Is it true that the platforms that PowerHouse
runs on are being phased out? Well, one is, the HPe3000. And that was HP's
decision, not ours. But OpenVMS is not being phased out, UNIX is not, and
Windows is not. The PowerHouse world is much larger than the HPe3000. We
continue to support PowerHouse on the HPe3000. The recently released version
8.4 included the HPe3000-MPE/iX platform. And we will continue to provide
support. And that means that the HPe3000 PowerHouse customer can be assured
that there is a viable migration platform for their PowerHouse applications
when they choose to migrate.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Why would a PowerHouse application be any more
difficult to staff and manage than anything else? Certainly you have to
train your staff. But you have to do that anyway. Maintaining PowerHouse
applications requires less staff and they're more productive. The key is to
use the best technology for the job, not necessarily the newest.
Technologies come and go. You want something that's solid and that's proven
itself.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Character-based applications aren't necessarily
more difficult to learn. Technology won't make up for application design.
But unlike many technologies, PowerHouse gives you the option of using the
interface that's best for the application at hand. There are times when
character-based entry is most efficient and there are times when the Web
browser or a Windows GUI is best. PowerHouse gives you all three. What else
does with the same productivity?</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>What would they have you replace PowerHouse with?
Java or .NET. Yes, PowerHouse is proprietary but so are .NET and Java. .NET
belongs to Microsoft and Java belongs to Sun. So don't let the proprietary
argument fool you. Does PowerHouse run on proprietary systems (MPE/iX and
OpenVMS)? Absolutely. It also runs on UNIX, a platform that is considered
open and modern. By the way, did you know that UNIX is older than
PowerHouse? And Windows is certainly not open. What platform options do you
get with the alternative? If you're on MPE/iX or OpenVMS, can they give you
a Web interface and still let you run on your existing platform? PowerHouse
can! Will they let you mix and match as needed? PowerHouse can!</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Is the alternative really open or do you have to
buy into the vendor's solution? Does their solution require vendor-specific
libraries? If so, you're simply buying into their unproven proprietary
solution.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>PowerHouse support and maintenance pricing has
not increased in many years. When we introduced support for the A and N
class HPe3000 machines, costs actually went down. We just released version
8.4 that upgrades operating system and relational database conformance to
current levels. And we added support for new data sources - DB2, DISAM, and
Eloquence. We'll do more of that later this year. PowerHouse is not becoming
obsolete, rather the opposite is true. PowerHouse code is cheaper to
support, maintain, and enhance than the corresponding C, C++, or Java. Why?
Because there's far less source code to deal with. And it's a 4GL. C, C++,
and Java are all 3GLs with all the issues involved. Object orientation did
not solve the 3GL non-productivity problem.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Do these migration alternatives really give you
all the options? Do they provide an option for the HPe3000 customer who is
dependant on IMAGE? PowerHouse does. Not only does PowerHouse support
Marxmeier's Eloquence on HP-UX and Windows, but it also works with other
IMAGE emulators. That's what "open" is really all about -
options.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>The bottom line is that if you're migrating, you
have lots of options. Just make sure that the option you pick is actually
better than what you already have. There is no silver bullet. Determine why
you are migrating. Is your platform really obsolete? Will the latest
technology really deliver the promised benefits? Talk to the vendors and
talk to Cognos. Have them prove that they can do what they say they can do.
Ask for references and talk to those references. Find out how long the
project took and whether it really was successful.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>We have thousands of satisfied customers. We have
customers who have successfully migrated - from HPe3000 to UNIX and Windows,
from IMAGE to Eloquence, from IMAGE to relational, from character to the
Web. What do they have?</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bob Berry, Doug Moffatt, and Bob Deskin</FONT>
<BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>on behalf of the ADT Development Team</FONT>
<BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>where developer productivity never goes out of
style</FONT> </P></UL></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<P> <FONT face=Arial size=2>This
message may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you
have received this e-mail in error or are not the intended recipient, you may
not use, copy, disseminate or distribute it; do not open any attachments,
delete it immediately from your system and notify the sender promptly by
e-mail that you have done so. Thank you.</FONT>
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