Is there a place for 4GLs anymore?

[Jon (Jarod) Hawks]

You are not alone in your assessment Bob. They were
marketed as 4GL's. Mark IV was as close to a 4GL as
they could serve up on the old IBM mainframes. A lot
like RPG too. Heavy list processing was needed to
support it. While 4GL's like Powerhouse can benefit
from data structure tuning, it's not dependent upon it
as Mark IV and RPG were. 

--- "Deskin, Bob" <Bob.Deskin@cognos.com> wrote:
> The reason I classified RPG and Mark IV as 4GLs (or
> 3 1/2) is totally my own
> logic. I never saw them classified as such. The
> rationale was that they had
> fixed logic that you modified based on your
> requirements. That made them
> essentially non-procedural which, to me, is the
> basis of a 4GL.
> 
> Bob
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon (Jarod) Hawks [mailto:hawksj@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 9:58 AM
> To: David Morrison - Corporate;
> powerh-l@lists.swau.edu
> Subject: RE: Is there a place for 4GLs anymore?
> 
> 
> My take on RPG is that RPG I required cards that had
> to be compiled for execution each run. RPG II was
> able
> to be worked for the 5153 Workstations which were
> compilable to SRT's or NEP-SRT's. Both were batch
> intensive and typically a one-way input for app's.
> But, they compiled. When RPG II added EXCPT
> processing
> and better on-line processing was available and
> actual
> data editing at the field level could happen,
> instead
> of a second program taking a basic input file to
> edit.
> There was no database underpinning. RPG III was a
> much
> more highly evolved language for S/38 which support
> a
> pseudo-rdb, that acted more like Image, with hybrid
> lists on top of their indexes. Indexes upon indexes
> occured until the convultion incurred a mass
> entanglement because the programmers did not
> understand volume processing, but rather, solved
> their
> problem with the data. 
> 
> I guess the danger in the next generation of
> computer
> geeks is that any 'shiny' object is attractive. So
> many languages have come and gone and populated the
> compute farms across the world. It would be a good
> thing to cut down on languages and increase the
> power
> of useful ones. I have great hopes that HP will
> produce something unique, based on Digital and HP
> technology, which really should not have gone by the
> wayside the last decade, and to which most large
> companies are now returning. At Pfizer, we knocked
> out
> over 500 servers and standardized on single
> platforms
> again. What a boon!
> --- David Morrison - Corporate
> <dmorrison@mcbrideelectric.com> wrote:
> > Another 4GL language is Synon, now called Cool:2E.
> 
> > For the AS/400 and ?
> > 
> > Bob Deskin referred to RPG as a 4GL, but I think
> 3GL
> > is more accurate for it.
> > 
> > David Morrison
> > McBride Electric
> > 
> >  -----Original Message-----
> > From: 	stewm@canada.com [mailto:stewm@canada.com] 
> > Sent:	Wednesday, May 07, 2003 5:21 AM
> > To:	powerh-l@lists.swau.edu
> > Subject:	Is there a place for 4GLs anymore?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Bob D., your definitions of the programming
> language
> > generations are right in with what I was tought
> > years
> > ago in college.  I agree with these definitions. 
> > What
> > would define a 5GL...anyone know?  Is anything out
> > there close to a 5GL?  Will there ever be a 5GL?
> > 
> > 1GL is machine language
> > 2GL is symbolic machine language such as assembler
> > 3GL is high level procedural such as COBOL, C,
> C++,
> > Java
> > 4GL a non-procedural (what not how) language that
> > provides a large reduction in physical code. Most
> > are
> > dictionary based.
> > 
> > Mark 
> > 
> > Consultants Club Corp.
> > Quote for the Day: Live by the sword, die by the
> > sword.
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> > 
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