No subject
Fri Aug 12 13:23:45 CDT 2016
just trying to make back what they invested so far, quickly.
Sounds like a dumb-a$$ thing to do if you ask me.
Powerhouse was always looked over because of run time licence cost. =
These guys just haven=E2=80=99t learned that yet it seams.
=20
As for different platforms, there are things that you can do to make =
this process easier.
1) Stop using dashes and under scores in your field/file naming =
conventions (mixed case works great, fields are singular, files are =
plural).
2) Use Segmented Keys, do not substructure anything in your files.
3) Stop hard coding machine specific code. I created a launch system =
that works on all machine platforms (except as400, never worked on that =
one) without changing anything.
4) Stop hard coding groups (on HP3000), run your app using scripts =
(QKS, sets location to exe, proclocs to source. QTC, sets location to =
subgroup, proclocs to exe. Etc)
=20
Ken
=20
From: powerh-l-bounces+ken.langendock=3Drogers.com at lists.sowder.com =
[mailto:powerh-l-bounces+ken.langendock=3Drogers.com at lists.sowder.com] =
On Behalf Of Charles Finley
Sent: November 1, 2016 1:02 PM
To: 'Herald Kaffka' <Herald.Kaffka at westfraser.com>; 'Craig Lalley' =
<mr_lalley at yahoo.com>; 'Ron Seybold' <rseybold at sbcglobal.net>; =
powerh-l at lists.sowder.com
Subject: [Bulk] RE: Stunning relicense quote
=20
Herald raises an important point about a platform change. Focusing on =
the base language is misleading at best. What he identifies as the =
background processing/shell scripting, etc. Is usually more difficult =
to migrate than the base application. Therefore, I suspect that there =
could be more to the story than simply the Powerhouse license. For =
example, if the customer has some dependent 3GL code such as COBOL, a =
few 3rd party products such as Suprtool, MPEX along with JCL, =
UDC=E2=80=99S, Command Files the cost to migrate all of that and the =
database and other file types could well exceed the price of the =
Powerhouse license. Further, there are some differences in how =
Powerhouse on a Linux platform uses databases and adaptations must be =
made for those.=20
=20
It will be interesting to see what all was quoted, if anything, along =
with the Powerhouse license.=20
=20
Charles Finley
(619) 795-0720
=20
From: powerh-l-bounces+cfinley=3Dxformix.com at lists.sowder.com =
[mailto:powerh-l-bounces+cfinley=3Dxformix.com at lists.sowder.com] On =
Behalf Of Herald Kaffka
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 7:58 AM
To: Craig Lalley; Ron Seybold; powerh-l at lists.sowder.com
Subject: RE: Stunning relicense quote
=20
Big part of those costs =E2=80=9Cshould=E2=80=9D be related to how much =
background processing/Shell scripting you have.
The Native Powerhouse portion should not require much programming =
effort, but batch/embedded shell scripts
Are an entirely different can of worms.
=20
If that=E2=80=99s simply a software licensing quote, then somebody =
really is pushing their migration consulting services=E2=80=A6
=20
(We looked at moving from VMS to LINUX at one point, it wasn=E2=80=99t =
the Native Powerhouse portion that nixed the ideal,=20
It was the Batch/Shell scripting work). Decision was to =
=E2=80=9Csupport in place=E2=80=9D until such a time as we hit =
=E2=80=9Creplace in total=E2=80=9D.
=20
=20
=20
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If it is true, it is difficult to imagine that this is a sustainable =
model. The price makes it worthwhile to move away from Powerhouse =
entirely. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Charles Finley<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>(619) 795-0720<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
powerh-l-bounces+cfinley=3Dxformix.com at lists.sowder.com =
[mailto:powerh-l-bounces+cfinley=3Dxformix.com at lists.sowder.com] <b>On =
Behalf Of </b>Ken Langendock<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 02, =
2016 6:00 AM<br><b>To:</b> cfinley at xformix.com; 'Herald Kaffka'; 'Craig =
Lalley'; 'Ron Seybold'; powerh-l at lists.sowder.com<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: =
[Bulk] RE: Stunning relicense quote<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From what =
I have heard, nothing is included in the licence, they are just trying =
to make back what they invested so far, quickly.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Sounds =
like a dumb-a$$ thing to do if you ask me.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Powerhouse =
was always looked over because of run time licence cost. These guys just =
haven=E2=80=99t learned that yet it seams.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> =
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>As for =
different platforms, there are things that you can do to make this =
process easier.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in'><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>1)</span><s=
pan lang=3DEN-CA style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'> =
</span><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Stop using =
dashes and under scores in your field/file naming conventions (mixed =
case works great, fields are singular, files are =
plural).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in'><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>2)</span><s=
pan lang=3DEN-CA style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'> =
</span><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Use =
Segmented Keys, do not substructure anything in your =
files.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in'><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>3)</span><s=
pan lang=3DEN-CA style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'> =
</span><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Stop hard =
coding machine specific code. I created a launch system that works on =
all machine platforms (except as400, never worked on that one) without =
changing anything.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in'><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>4)</span><s=
pan lang=3DEN-CA style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'> =
</span><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Stop hard =
coding groups (on HP3000), run your app using scripts (QKS, sets =
location to exe, proclocs to source. QTC, sets location to subgroup, =
proclocs to exe. Etc)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> =
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Ken<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> =
</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span=
></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:powerh-l-bounces+ken.langendock=3Drogers.com at lists.sowder.=
com">powerh-l-bounces+ken.langendock=3Drogers.com at lists.sowder.com</a> =
[<a =
href=3D"mailto:powerh-l-bounces+ken.langendock=3Drogers.com at lists.sowder.=
com">mailto:powerh-l-bounces+ken.langendock=3Drogers.com at lists.sowder.com=
</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Charles Finley<br><b>Sent:</b> November 1, =
2016 1:02 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'Herald Kaffka' <<a =
href=3D"mailto:Herald.Kaffka at westfraser.com">Herald.Kaffka at westfraser.com=
</a>>; 'Craig Lalley' <<a =
href=3D"mailto:mr_lalley at yahoo.com">mr_lalley at yahoo.com</a>>; 'Ron =
Seybold' <<a =
href=3D"mailto:rseybold at sbcglobal.net">rseybold at sbcglobal.net</a>>; =
<a =
href=3D"mailto:powerh-l at lists.sowder.com">powerh-l at lists.sowder.com</a><b=
r><b>Subject:</b> [Bulk] RE: Stunning relicense =
quote<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Herald raises an important point about a platform change. =
Focusing on the base language is misleading at best. What he =
identifies as the background processing/shell scripting, etc. Is =
usually more difficult to migrate than the base application. =
Therefore, I suspect that there could be more to the story than simply =
the Powerhouse license. For example, if the customer has some =
dependent 3GL code such as COBOL, a few 3<sup>rd</sup> party products =
such as Suprtool, MPEX along with JCL, UDC=E2=80=99S, Command Files the =
cost to migrate all of that and the database and other file types could =
well exceed the price of the Powerhouse license. Further, there =
are some differences in how Powerhouse on a Linux platform uses =
databases and adaptations must be made for those. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>It will be interesting to see what all was quoted, if anything, along =
with the Powerhouse license. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Charles Finley<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>(619) 795-0720<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
<a =
href=3D"mailto:powerh-l-bounces+cfinley=3Dxformix.com at lists.sowder.com">p=
owerh-l-bounces+cfinley=3Dxformix.com at lists.sowder.com</a> [<a =
href=3D"mailto:powerh-l-bounces+cfinley=3Dxformix.com at lists.sowder.com">m=
ailto:powerh-l-bounces+cfinley=3Dxformix.com at lists.sowder.com</a>] <b>On =
Behalf Of </b>Herald Kaffka<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 01, 2016 =
7:58 AM<br><b>To:</b> Craig Lalley; Ron Seybold; <a =
href=3D"mailto:powerh-l at lists.sowder.com">powerh-l at lists.sowder.com</a><b=
r><b>Subject:</b> RE: Stunning relicense =
quote<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Big part of those costs =E2=80=9Cshould=E2=80=9D be related to how =
much background processing/Shell scripting you =
have.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The Native Powerhouse portion should not require much programming =
effort, but batch/embedded shell scripts<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Are an entirely different can of worms.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If that=E2=80=99s simply a software licensing quote, then somebody =
really is pushing their migration consulting =
services=E2=80=A6<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>(We looked at moving from VMS to LINUX at one point, it =
wasn=E2=80=99t the Native Powerhouse portion that nixed the ideal, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>It was the Batch/Shell scripting work). Decision was to =
=E2=80=9Csupport in place=E2=80=9D until such a time as we hit =
=E2=80=9Creplace in total=E2=80=9D.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
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