powerh-l Digest, Vol 80, Issue 2
ken weiland
ken_weiland at yahoo.com
Tue Feb 21 14:35:27 CST 2012
I have been involved in many powerhouse migration projects
- the best is to keep things simple
- the least changes to powerhouse the better
- you can migrate the data using portable subfiles
- numeric data storage in oracle may be different than in image
- naming conventions in image may be different in oracle - ie
customer-detail vs customer_detail (thus code may have to change)
- create the tables in your target system with no indexing or keys
- load in your subfiles and then create the index, reference keys
- you may have to change the date field to represent the null date
for that database - different databases have a default date that represents null entry
- on one migration we had to change the code when referring to dates as: if newdate is null or '18500101' - a lot of work to avoid if you can
- Image has redefined fields that are not available in other data bases
- also automatic masters in Image do not need to be moved to the new system
- if they are KSAM files and flat files you will have to decide how to
handle them in the new system
- batch processes will have to be rewritten in unix and some kind of schedule system
- as Richard said - doing a proto type of a couple major screens,
a couple of batch jobs to determine the effort of work is a very good
thing to do
- creating some reports and sending them to a printer would also be a good thing
I done many data migrations and moved several powerhouse applications from unix - interbase to both oracle, powerhouse windows and sql server with no problems
Cognos was also helpful by giving us a 10 - 20 day trial period
for use of the software on the new platform
I think some of your biggest problems will be the cobol processes,
as image has read up or down chains api calls that don't really exists
in other databases
let me know if you any further help or advice on how to proceed
Ken
--- On Tue, 2/21/12, powerh-l-request at lists.sowder.com <powerh-l-request at lists.sowder.com> wrote:
> From: powerh-l-request at lists.sowder.com <powerh-l-request at lists.sowder.com>
> Subject: powerh-l Digest, Vol 80, Issue 2
> To: powerh-l at lists.sowder.com
> Received: Tuesday, February 21, 2012, 10:00 AM
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. RE:HP3000/Image to Linix Red Hat/Oracle
> Back End (Richard Witkopp)
> 2. RE:HP3000/Image to Linix Red Hat/Oracle
> Back End (Stephen Hulbert)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 11:37:07 -0800
> From: "Richard Witkopp" <RWitkopp at phxa.com>
> Subject: RE: HP3000/Image to Linix Red Hat/Oracle Back End
> To: "powerh-l at lists.sowder.com"
> <powerh-l at lists.sowder.com>
> Message-ID:
> <BA363FB4BD058347B0F16AF9C2F0AA391BEDFBF3 at phxexch1.phxa.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I was involved in a migration on VMS from ISAM files just to
> DEC Rdb, their relational database at the time. We were
> going to stay on the same operating system.
>
> It was a huge project that lasted over three years that
> ultimately was a failure because the new system wasn't
> properly stress-tested. I would say that no matter how
> simple it may seem, (a switch to x86 Linux does not seem
> simple to me) it will take a lot more work than you expect.
> My suggestion would be to try to split off a minor subsystem
> that uses a couple dozen programs as a pilot project. That
> would tell you a lot about how the rest of the project might
> go.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: powerh-l-bounces+rwitkopp=phxa.com at lists.sowder.com
> [mailto:powerh-l-bounces+rwitkopp=phxa.com at lists.sowder.com]
> On Behalf Of Adrian Hudson
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 7:19 AM
> To: powerh-l at lists.sowder.com
> Subject: HP3000/Image to Linix Red Hat/Oracle Back End
>
> Hi All,
>
> We are currently in the early stages of planning a migration
> from
> vanilla TurboImage and Powerhouse plus a handful of Cobol
> programs to
> Red Hat Linux and Powerhouse with an Oracle backend.
>
> I've already read some of the available documents,
> concerning
> migration, from the IBM 'Cognos' site and, indeed, I've been
> involved
> in several similar projects in the past, but never to
> Linux.
>
> I'd just like the board to share any
> experiences/pitfalls/things to
> look out for in a migration to Linux and I would also like
> anyone to
> share their experiences of the tools available/methods to
> unload an
> Image database and reload/perform data type migration into
> Oracle (or
> any RDBMS).
>
> Plus if anyone is available for Contract work in the South
> of the UK
> (quite near Brighton) I would like to hear from them.
>
> Best wishes to you all,
>
>
> Adrian
> --
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 17:06:31 +0000
> From: Stephen Hulbert <shulbert at littlejohnllp.com>
> Subject: RE: HP3000/Image to Linix Red Hat/Oracle Back End
> To: "powerh-l at lists.sowder.com"
> <powerh-l at lists.sowder.com>
> Message-ID:
> <2DC2CC78267EC14EA0915CA937E194820DC7EFBE4A at meserver3.littlejohnllp.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> That's one horror story, but I'm sure it's not
> representative.
> We moved from CISAM to Oracle on AIX and it just worked.
> The main thing you have to remember is you're migrating a
> system not rewriting it.
> 1. You could spend a lot of time working out how to go from
> one key per table to as many as you want. Forget that, get
> your system working then worry.
> 2. Similarly with all the other shiny content a proper
> database offers. Don't spend any time writing triggers or
> stored procedures. Don't launch into using cursors. There'll
> be plenty of time for all that once you've got your system
> working. Although if your system is well-designed in
> Powerhouse already you won't need any.
> 3. The main problem, of course, is identity columns. However
> you do this it's going to be less efficient in data and/or
> code terms. This is unfortunately where you will need to
> write stored procedures.
> Originally we went with using sequences which avoids locking
> problems but doesn't guarantee contiguity. Now due to
> needing an arbitrary number of sequences per table we've
> moved back to last number tables. This guarantees contiguity
> but has locking issues. Use files are your friend in this.
> You can autogenerate them and you shouldn't need to go back
> and edit the files that use them if you do.
> 4. Oracle does not use zero dates. Powerhouse forces it to.
> However, if you ever want to use anything that isn't
> Powerhouse to access the data you should use the "default
> date is null" option on the PDL database statement. This
> stores null and reads zero transparently for default dates.
> 5. Oracle number types deal with decimal places
> transparently. That is number(12,2) has two decimal places
> in Oracle (e.g. 1.00) but is the integer you would expect in
> Powerhouse. (e.g. 100)
> We went with number(12) and everything's fine. However, now
> that users are demanding ODBC access this and the zero dates
> mean we now have to write queries to provide it in a
> readable format.
> Hope this helps,
> Stephen.
>
>
> --
>
> Stephen Hulbert
> Senior Analyst Programmer
> For and on behalf of
> Littlejohn LLP
> Direct: +44 (20) 7516 2201
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: powerh-l-bounces+shulbert=littlejohnllp.com at lists.sowder.com
> [mailto:powerh-l-bounces+shulbert=littlejohnllp.com at lists.sowder.com]
> On Behalf Of Richard Witkopp
> Sent: 20 February 2012 19:37
> To: powerh-l at lists.sowder.com
> Subject: RE: HP3000/Image to Linix Red Hat/Oracle Back End
>
> I was involved in a migration on VMS from ISAM files just to
> DEC Rdb, their relational database at the time. We were
> going to stay on the same operating system.
>
> It was a huge project that lasted over three years that
> ultimately was a failure because the new system wasn't
> properly stress-tested. I would say that no matter how
> simple it may seem, (a switch to x86 Linux does not seem
> simple to me) it will take a lot more work than you expect.
> My suggestion would be to try to split off a minor subsystem
> that uses a couple dozen programs as a pilot project. That
> would tell you a lot about how the rest of the project might
> go.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: powerh-l-bounces+rwitkopp=phxa.com at lists.sowder.com
> [mailto:powerh-l-bounces+rwitkopp=phxa.com at lists.sowder.com]
> On Behalf Of Adrian Hudson
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 7:19 AM
> To: powerh-l at lists.sowder.com
> Subject: HP3000/Image to Linix Red Hat/Oracle Back End
>
> Hi All,
>
> We are currently in the early stages of planning a migration
> from
> vanilla TurboImage and Powerhouse plus a handful of Cobol
> programs to
> Red Hat Linux and Powerhouse with an Oracle backend.
>
> I've already read some of the available documents,
> concerning
> migration, from the IBM 'Cognos' site and, indeed, I've been
> involved
> in several similar projects in the past, but never to
> Linux.
>
> I'd just like the board to share any
> experiences/pitfalls/things to
> look out for in a migration to Linux and I would also like
> anyone to
> share their experiences of the tools available/methods to
> unload an
> Image database and reload/perform data type migration into
> Oracle (or
> any RDBMS).
>
> Plus if anyone is available for Contract work in the South
> of the UK
> (quite near Brighton) I would like to hear from them.
>
> Best wishes to you all,
>
>
> Adrian
> --
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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> ==============================================================================
>
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