StrongHold & Migrating to Windows

Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:01:00 -0600

Georgia

For personal experience converting a PH application to another ADT either
will not work or will be much expensive then simply re-writing the
application from scratch.  Even converting from one 4GL to another is very
labour intensive let alone moving to a 3GL; and that's with using a
conversion package.

Some of you reasons for converting were:

1. convert our Powerhouse code to another more well-known tool/language that
is easier to learn than PowerHouse
NO tool of sufficient complexity to solve today's business problems will be
easier to learn.  Poeple used to spend months if not years learning COBOL,
C, BASIC, etc in college.  PH only took a few days or weeks.  With a 4GL the
developer doesn't have to know the mechanics of reading and writing data
sets and can focus on the business logic.  With Java or VB you need to code
at a much lower level and waste time on semantics.

2. has lower maintenance costs
While 4GLs cost more up-front the TCO is usually less.  4GLs are suitable to
RAD whereas a 3GL (with OO extensions) is only so if a well defined,
complete and current class library and external plugins exist.
Java, C++ and VB programmers are no cheaper to hire than PH programmers and
will take longer to solve a business problem.  A good Java/VB programmer is
no easier to find than a good PH programmer.  Witness the so-called need to
bring in people from overseas to fill Java/VB positions because not enough
can be found in the USA.  ASP contract programmers in Chicago go for $60 and
up per hour.  Cognos BI programmers get less than that!

3. people in the community actually have the knowledge to know how to use
it, etc.
Do you mean how to program in the language to use the end result?

David

If PH is a soon-to-be-extinct dinosaur then perhaps so is the AS/400.  Why
don't you submit a topic about options for moving from this archaic platform
to something more 'modern'.  Say Windows or Linux.  Sun is giving away the
new Solaris 10.  Itanium box are much more advanced.

Blue

> -----Original Message-----
> From: powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com
> [mailto:powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com]On Behalf Of Georgia Miller
> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 4:46 PM
> To: PowerHouse Listserv
> Subject: Re: StrongHold & Migrating to Windows
>
>
> Dear List,
>
> I agree with Darren.  The StrongHold post was extremely timely
> for me.  Our HP3000 platform is going away and we are planning to
> migrate to the Windows Environment with SQL Server.  We are in
> the process of deciding what development tools we want to use on
> Windows.  We have been a PowerHouse shop for 25 years!
>
> I just attended the  COGNOS -Migrating Applications With Axiant
> 4GL class in San Ramon, CA last week.  It was very informative as
> in giving us options for our migration.  We went there to decide
> whether we want to keep Powerhouse and run on either PowerHouse
> for Windows or Axiant in the PC environment.  Axiant does give
> you a great tool to migrate your data from the MPEix environment
> to SQL Server.  It will port your data, dictionary, & Powerhouse
> Source for you.  By the end of the 2-day class I had one of my
> existing applications working in the Windows environment in
> PowerHouse for Windows.
>
> BUT, we were not very happy about the way that PowerHouse for
> Windows works on the PC.  In order to use the tool you have to
> use DOS commands.  I don't know DOS because before we had PC's we
> had Macintosh boxes.  It looks like they made Powerhouse work on
> the PC, but it looks like a rush job.  Learning DOS at this point
> in my career seems pointless!  PowerHouse for Windows actually
> runs in the DOS environment.  Axiant has all the graphical stuff
> but it will be a lot of work to port our applications from
> PowerHouse to Axiant.
>
> So our question is, Do we still want to use PowerHouse on the PC.
>  Our 2 main Powerhouse programmers will be retiring within 3
> years, 1 of which is me.  We are going to replace nearly every
> application we have with a PC based boxed software application.
> Our Quiz, QTP & Quick code could all move right across easily to
> the PC environment.  But do we want to go in that direction, when
> there are so many great tools out there for the PC.  Our skills
> in Powerhouse will be going away.  We are based in Montana and
> there are few people in Montana with Powerhouse programming
> skills.  Hiring someone in Great Falls, Montana with PowerHouse
> Skills that would want to work for a low salary and want to stick
> around for awhile is next to impossible.   If we could convert
> our Powerhouse code to another more well-known tool/language that
> is easier to learn than PowerHouse,  has lower maintenance costs,
> people in the community actually have the knowledge to know how
> to use it, etc. we may be w!
>  ay ahead.  If we were going to port our applications to Axiant
> it would be learning another tool and be a lot of re-programming.
>  And it seems like Cognos does not seem very committed to
> supporting or enhancing PowerHouse.  Just seeing PowerHouse PC,
> shows that it  was not intended to be a product that was meant to
> be Sold to new users but just pacify the existing users until
> they could do something better.
>
> So when I got back to work on Monday, I started right away to
> look at other options for us in the PC world, other than
> Powerhouse.  I was quite thrilled to see that there are products
> out there that will convert PowerHouse Code to a more well known
> language, like Java.  At this point we don't know if we want to
> go to Java or will have that need.  But the information on
> StongHold, helps me greatly in my search for what is out there,
> to accomplish our migration.
>
> When I first heard the news that HP was discontinuing the HP3000
> MPEix world that I have worked in for the last 25 years and got
> the privilege to enjoy for most of my career, I thought at first
> that I would just retire.  I can retire with 30 years in March
> 2005.  Maybe it would be best to leave the work of converting and
> learning all new PC stuff to someone else.  BUT learning new
> things that has to do with computers is pretty exciting for me
> and I am quite young to retire, since I started in this business
> when I was 16.  So I've decided to stay for at least 3 more years
> and help my employer at least get a good start on this conversion
> business.
>
> Thanks Dennis, your post was very helpful and timely for me.
>
> This list does not belong to Cognos, but to the Powerhouse user
> base.  In my case, as a Powerhouse user, I may need help moving
> away from Powerhouse as this point in time.  We may decide to
> keep Powerhouse and use Axiant, but we may not.  My job as an
> analyst is to investigate all options and choose the one that
> works the best for our users and our department.
>
> Georgia Miller
> Systems Analyst
> Great Falls Public Schools
> Great Falls, MT
>
> On 11/17/2004 2:11 PM, Darren Reely <darren.reely@latticesemi.com> wrote:
> >Michael,
> >
> >Sure, it is both of those things. This list occasionally has discussions
> >
> >regarding moving away from Powerhouse, so I feel it is good information
> >
> >to have. The message was posted in the right place (a PH discussion
> >
> >list) and properly described in the body. Sure, the subject heading
> >
> >could have been better.
> >
> >If Dennis was to take the e-mail addresses from this list and send
> >me
> >unsolicited e-mail, like that other conversion company has, I'd be
> >upset.
> >
> >Dennis, thanks for news. I now am aware of another possibility.
> >
> >Darren.
> >
> >Michael Lee wrote:
> >
> >> (I'm resubmitting this response as the first one was sent from
> >a
> >> different email address is being reviewed)
> >>
> >> With all due respect 'Dennis' (think of Seinfeld saying "Newman")
> >this
> >> advertisement is doubly insulting:
> >> 1) It's an advertisement.
> >> 2) It's about moving people OFF of Powerhouse. Hey-that's our job
> >
> >> you're trying to get rid of!
> >>
> >
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