Fw: Powerhouse - migrate/port from HP3000 MPE to UNIX or Windows

Deskin, Bob Bob.Deskin@Cognos.COM
Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:56:44 -0400


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Just to verify Joe's comment, the just-shipped PowerHouse 8.43D supports =
"large files" for C-ISAM. This means that it supports up to 2 Gig =
records but the number of bytes can be much more than 2 Gig. PowerHouse =
does not put a limit on the maximum file size, only the number of =
records it can handle.
Bob Deskin             =20
Senior Product Manager, Application Development Tools, Cognos Inc.=20
bob.deskin@cognos.com (613) 738-1338 ext 7268 FAX: (613) 727-1178=20
3755 Riverside Drive P.O. Box 9707 Stn. T, Ottawa ON K1G 4K9 CANADA=20

	-----Original Message-----
	From: powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com =
[mailto:powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com] On Behalf Of Joe Boyle
	Sent: April 26, 2004 7:26 AM
	To: powerh-l@lists.sowder.com
	Subject: RE: Fw: Powerhouse - migrate/port from HP3000 MPE to UNIX or =
Windows
=09
=09

	and to all those that were irritated by the 2 Giga byte file size limit =
for C-isam - I'm almost certain that with the new PH versions, the file =
size is now limited to 2-Gig records of whatever byte size.
=09

	>From: "Philip Jackson" <pj@icing-it.co.uk>=20
	>To: <powerh-l@lists.sowder.com>=20
	>Subject: Fw: Powerhouse - migrate/port from HP3000 MPE to UNIX or =
Windows=20
	>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:32:43 +0100=20
	>=20
	>Powerhouse - migrate/port from HP3000 MPE to UNIX or WindowsI have =
just finished helping a client move several applications from =
HP3000/TurboIMAGE to HP-UX & C-ISAM.=20
	>=20
	>We looked at moving to Oracle on HP-UX, but discounted it mainly =
because the primary application relied heavily on arrays and =
substructures - things that don't fit easily into a relational system.  =
If we had been starting a new application then Oracle would probably =
have been used as the database, but the port was much easier from Image =
to C-ISAM.  We didn't look at Eloquence as I don't think it was even in =
beta-test at the time we were looking at options.=20
	>=20
	>The majority of the code moved over smoothly.  Most recompiled without =
problems, and most PowerHouse code changes were to do with the order =
records were retrieved.=20
	>=20
	>We did discover that several of our QTPs accidently created duplicate =
unique keys briefly while updating due to the order of updates - Image =
doesn't enforce unique keys on detail datasets so it never caused a =
problem before, whereas C-ISAM does it properly and would crash the QTP. =
 However it was simple to fix once we figured out what was causing it.=20
	>=20
	>Our biggest changes were, as you would expect, relating to interaction =
with the OS for things like printing and streaming jobs.  I would =
recommend that you investigate the running/creating of scripts/jobs on =
the fly (if you do that) very carefully.=20
	>=20
	>The HP-UX machine runs about twenty (thats 20) times faster! - of =
course it's a completely different type of machine and more powerful, =
but the speed increase was almost incidental and impressed even the most =
demanding users.  In fact sometimes it was difficult to convince the =
users that the jobs that usually would take, say, 20 minutes to run were =
completed and printing in under a minute.=20
	>=20
	>If you do anything at all fancy with printing, unix will fight you all =
the way.  There is no inbuilt way to print a range of pages, or part of =
a file, or even resuming a jammed printout back a bit without cancelling =
and resubmitting the print.  While it does nice banner pages and is fine =
for printouts that, well, just print and don't jam, adding a new printer =
for example stops and restarts all print jobs currently printing from =
the beginning (or if you're lucky just stops them).  We tried a couple =
of third-party spooling products but quite frankly they were relying on =
a greater depth of knowledge of networks and unix than we had or wanted, =
and were really aimed at a mixed os printing environment.  A few things =
were better, but by-in-large I consider printer handling on HP-UX =
'incomplete'.=20
	>=20
	>Some of the more advanced users were used to using various line =
editors to write their own quizes.  There was no way they could have =
handled vi on HP-UX - even some of the non-unix programmers spent days =
laughing hysterically over it - so we bought the new Qedit for HP-UX for =
them.  There were other ways we could have done it - perhaps having =
shares on the unix boxes mapped in Windows so that they could have used =
Notepad or any other windows editor instead - but it was decided this =
was a better fit.  And it helped some of the programmers too who were =
already feeling unloved by unix.=20
	>=20
	>The standard users wouldn't have noticed the difference between it =
running on HP3000 or HP-UX, if it wasn't for the enormous speed =
increase.  Quick screens handle just about identically, and they even =
continued using the same terminal emulators.=20
	>=20
	>=20
	>Hope this answers some of your questions, and reassures anyone else =
looking at doing PowerHouse HP3000 to HP-UX.=20
	>=20
	>Can't advise with porting to PowerHouse on Windows, and as for =
converting to Cobol / Java, that would be a re-write rather than a =
'simple' port and therefore quite a different type of project.  Maybe if =
you were going to be replacing an old PowerHouse application that no =
longer suited the business with a brand new =
better-stronger-faster-differently-featured one and you didn't want to =
stay with PowerHouse (shame!) then using a completely different language =
would make sense.  But I can't see that porting between such very =
different languages would be a good use of your time and effort.=20
	>=20
	>=20
	>Philip.=20
	>=20
	>----- Original Message -----=20
	>   From: Fritsch, Peter-Robert=20
	>   To: powerh-l@lists.sowder.com=20
	>   Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 10:54 AM=20
	>   Subject: Powerhouse - migrate/port from HP3000 MPE to UNIX or =
Windows=20
	>=20
	>=20
	>=20
	>=20
	>   Hi, what is the best way to port/migrate/run PowerHouse =
applications (with TurboIMAGE) from a HP 3000 / MPE to UNIX or Windows =
Servers.=20
	>=20
	>   Are there runtimes for Powerhouse on UNIX or Windows, which can be =
used for the applications developed for HP3000.=20
	>   Are there porting or migration tools from PowerHouse to COBOL / =
JAVA.=20
	>=20
	>   What is the best way for the exchange of the environment, whereby =
the applications should be still working under UNIX or Windows.=20
	>=20
	>   Thanks a lot, regards Peter=20
	>=20
	>=20
	>=20
	>   Ing. Mag. Peter Robert Fritsch=20
	>   Account Manager=20
	>   Gesch=E4ftsfeld Informatik=20
	>=20
	>   Tel.:    +43 1 797 50-231=20
	>   Fax:    +43 1 797 50-8008=20
	>   Mobil:  +43 676 765 66 31=20
	>   Email:  peter-robert.fritsch@beko.at=20
	>=20
	>   BEKO Ing. P. Kotauczek GmbH=20
	>   A-1030 Wien=20
	>   Modecenterstra=DFe 22/A1/6=20
	>   www.beko-informatik.com=20
	>=20
	>=20

________________________________

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><DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D649555312-26042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Just=20
to verify Joe's comment, the just-shipped PowerHouse 8.43D supports =
"large=20
files" for C-ISAM. This means that it supports up to 2 Gig records but =
the=20
number of bytes can be much more than 2 Gig. PowerHouse does not put a =
limit on=20
the maximum file size, only the number of records it can=20
handle.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D649555312-26042004><!-- Converted from text/rtf =
format -->
<P><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bob=20
Deskin&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;=20
</FONT></SPAN><BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Senior =
Product=20
Manager, Application Development Tools, Cognos Inc.</FONT></SPAN> =
<BR><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>bob.deskin@cognos.com (613) =
738-1338 ext 7268=20
FAX: (613) 727-1178</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>3755 Riverside Drive P.O. Box 9707 Stn. T, Ottawa ON K1G 4K9=20
CANADA</FONT></SPAN> </P></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
  powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com =
[mailto:powerh-l-admin@lists.sowder.com] <B>On=20
  Behalf Of </B>Joe Boyle<BR><B>Sent:</B> April 26, 2004 7:26 =
AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  powerh-l@lists.sowder.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Fw: Powerhouse - =
migrate/port=20
  from HP3000 MPE to UNIX or Windows<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV class=3DRTE>
  <P>and to all those that were irritated by the 2 Giga byte file size =
limit for=20
  C-isam -&nbsp;I'm almost certain that with the new PH versions, the =
file=20
  size&nbsp;is now limited to 2-Gig records of whatever byte =
size.<BR></P></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;From: "Philip Jackson" &lt;pj@icing-it.co.uk&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;To: &lt;powerh-l@lists.sowder.com&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: Fw: Powerhouse - migrate/port from HP3000 MPE =
to UNIX=20
  or Windows=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:32:43 +0100=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Powerhouse - migrate/port from HP3000 MPE to UNIX or =
WindowsI=20
  have just finished helping a client move several applications from=20
  HP3000/TurboIMAGE to HP-UX &amp; C-ISAM.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;We looked at moving to Oracle on HP-UX, but discounted =
it=20
  mainly because the primary application relied heavily on arrays and=20
  substructures - things that don't fit easily into a relational=20
  system.&nbsp;&nbsp;If we had been starting a new application then =
Oracle would=20
  probably have been used as the database, but the port was much easier =
from=20
  Image to C-ISAM.&nbsp;&nbsp;We didn't look at Eloquence as I don't =
think it=20
  was even in beta-test at the time we were looking at options.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;The majority of the code moved over =
smoothly.&nbsp;&nbsp;Most=20
  recompiled without problems, and most PowerHouse code changes were to =
do with=20
  the order records were retrieved.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;We did discover that several of our QTPs accidently =
created=20
  duplicate unique keys briefly while updating due to the order of =
updates -=20
  Image doesn't enforce unique keys on detail datasets so it never =
caused a=20
  problem before, whereas C-ISAM does it properly and would crash the=20
  QTP.&nbsp;&nbsp;However it was simple to fix once we figured out what =
was=20
  causing it.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Our biggest changes were, as you would expect, relating =
to=20
  interaction with the OS for things like printing and streaming=20
  jobs.&nbsp;&nbsp;I would recommend that you investigate the =
running/creating=20
  of scripts/jobs on the fly (if you do that) very carefully.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;The HP-UX machine runs about twenty (thats 20) times =
faster! -=20
  of course it's a completely different type of machine and more =
powerful, but=20
  the speed increase was almost incidental and impressed even the most =
demanding=20
  users.&nbsp;&nbsp;In fact sometimes it was difficult to convince the =
users=20
  that the jobs that usually would take, say, 20 minutes to run were =
completed=20
  and printing in under a minute.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;If you do anything at all fancy with printing, unix =
will fight=20
  you all the way.&nbsp;&nbsp;There is no inbuilt way to print a range =
of pages,=20
  or part of a file, or even resuming a jammed printout back a bit =
without=20
  cancelling and resubmitting the print.&nbsp;&nbsp;While it does nice =
banner=20
  pages and is fine for printouts that, well, just print and don't jam, =
adding a=20
  new printer for example stops and restarts all print jobs currently =
printing=20
  from the beginning (or if you're lucky just stops them).&nbsp;&nbsp;We =
tried a=20
  couple of third-party spooling products but quite frankly they were =
relying on=20
  a greater depth of knowledge of networks and unix than we had or =
wanted, and=20
  were really aimed at a mixed os printing environment.&nbsp;&nbsp;A few =
things=20
  were better, but by-in-large I consider printer handling on HP-UX=20
  'incomplete'.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Some of the more advanced users were used to using =
various line=20
  editors to write their own quizes.&nbsp;&nbsp;There was no way they =
could have=20
  handled vi on HP-UX - even some of the non-unix programmers spent days =

  laughing hysterically over it - so we bought the new Qedit for HP-UX =
for=20
  them.&nbsp;&nbsp;There were other ways we could have done it - perhaps =
having=20
  shares on the unix boxes mapped in Windows so that they could have =
used=20
  Notepad or any other windows editor instead - but it was decided this =
was a=20
  better fit.&nbsp;&nbsp;And it helped some of the programmers too who =
were=20
  already feeling unloved by unix.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;The standard users wouldn't have noticed the difference =
between=20
  it running on HP3000 or HP-UX, if it wasn't for the enormous speed=20
  increase.&nbsp;&nbsp;Quick screens handle just about identically, and =
they=20
  even continued using the same terminal emulators.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Hope this answers some of your questions, and reassures =
anyone=20
  else looking at doing PowerHouse HP3000 to HP-UX.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Can't advise with porting to PowerHouse on Windows, and =
as for=20
  converting to Cobol / Java, that would be a re-write rather than a =
'simple'=20
  port and therefore quite a different type of project.&nbsp;&nbsp;Maybe =
if you=20
  were going to be replacing an old PowerHouse application that no =
longer suited=20
  the business with a brand new =
better-stronger-faster-differently-featured one=20
  and you didn't want to stay with PowerHouse (shame!) then using a =
completely=20
  different language would make sense.&nbsp;&nbsp;But I can't see that =
porting=20
  between such very different languages would be a good use of your time =
and=20
  effort.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Philip.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;----- Original Message -----=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; From: Fritsch, Peter-Robert=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; To: powerh-l@lists.sowder.com=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 10:54 AM=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subject: Powerhouse - migrate/port from =
HP3000 MPE=20
  to UNIX or Windows=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi, what is the best way to =
port/migrate/run=20
  PowerHouse applications (with TurboIMAGE) from a HP 3000 / MPE to UNIX =
or=20
  Windows Servers.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Are there runtimes for Powerhouse on UNIX =
or=20
  Windows, which can be used for the applications developed for HP3000.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Are there porting or migration tools from=20
  PowerHouse to COBOL / JAVA.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; What is the best way for the exchange of =
the=20
  environment, whereby the applications should be still working under =
UNIX or=20
  Windows.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks a lot, regards Peter=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ing. Mag. Peter Robert Fritsch=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Account Manager=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Gesch=E4ftsfeld Informatik=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tel.:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;+43 1 797 =
50-231=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fax:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;+43 1 797 =
50-8008=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mobil:&nbsp;&nbsp;+43 676 765 66 31=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;peter-robert.fritsch@beko.at=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; BEKO Ing. P. Kotauczek GmbH=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; A-1030 Wien=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Modecenterstra=DFe 22/A1/6=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; www.beko-informatik.com=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
  <HR>
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  powerh-l@lists.sowder.com Subscribe: "subscribe" in message body to=20
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  post to the list you must be a subscriber. </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<B><FONT FACE=3D"Arial" =
SIZE=3D"2">Cognos Forum, June 27-30, 2004: Power Your =
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