PowerHouse in the next 3 years?

Thu, 8 May 2003 11:30:06 -0400

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C31576.B3E0BC40
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

Part of our design philosophy for PH Web was not to compete with HTML
editors, either text based or GUI based. There are too many out there. Plus,
we'd be spending a lot of time keeping up with the latest in HTML. Rather,
we generate a template that should work on most browsers (at least versions
4 and up). We have talked about doing something in Axiant but nothing
definite yet.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: Edis, Robert [mailto:Robert.Edis@blistex.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 10:51 AM
To: powerh-l@lists.swau.edu
Subject: RE: PowerHouse in the next 3 years?

Bob D.

In Axiant there is a form that allows "drawing" of the screen.  I.e.
placement and format of objects such as fields, field labels, titles, etc.
Couldn't a HTML tool bar be included there to allow the insertion of HTML
tags?  Something similar but not necessarily as complex as the tool bar/s
found in say HomeSite.  This tool bar would only be available to the editor
if the screen HTML attributes were set to on.

Blue

-----Original Message-----
From: Deskin, Bob [mailto:Bob.Deskin@cognos.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 6:52 PM
To: powerh-l@lists.swau.edu
Subject: RE: PowerHouse in the next 3 years?

What I meant was that there is nothing that physically connects HTML code
with QDESIGN source. I was thinking of Axiant or even PowerHouse Client,
where PowerHouse could relate the generated form to specific objects in the
code. I'm not saying that you can't get most of the HTML into QDESIGN as
text, and we know that you've got lots of techniques for generating HTML on
the fly, but it's not what most people expect.

I don't know whether we'll do a template, embed HTML in special QDESIGN
keywords, or some combination. But it is needed. And I don't want to go the
way of the painters, where the user spends lots of time making things pretty
without worrying if it works. PH Web is perfect for making it work and then
making it pretty, but maintaining things after it's pretty isn't as easy as
it could be.

And that's what a productivity tool's all about. Taking those mundane tasks
and automating them so that you have time for the stuff that needs brain
power. But you knew that :-)

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: Sheehan, Richard [mailto:RSheehan@ci.bellevue.wa.us]
Sent: May 7, 2003 5:30 PM
To: powerh-l@lists.swau.edu
Subject: RE: PowerHouse in the next 3 years?

Bob,

You say there are no hooks into the QDESIGN source.  You can create your own
hooks using custom tags, e.g..

Sure it is straight text, but you can add your own logic into the text as
desired and thus effect the rendering of the HTML as desired; or if added
for information only, the result could be no impact as well.

Richard.

Richard S Sheehan 
425.452.6177 
Business Systems Analyst 
City of Bellevue, WA 

-----Original Message-----
From: Deskin, Bob [mailto:Bob.Deskin@Cognos.COM] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 11:48 AM
To: 'Dennis Hassell'; powerh-l@lists.swau.edu
Subject: RE: PowerHouse in the next 3 years?

Dennis wrote:

Also, for the future, providing a closer integration of the PH Web product
with an HTML design tool would be very helpful. Right now, the styled HTML
must be modified by hand to implement changes. A QDESIGN recompile into HTML
will not merge the HTML design with the PH logic. Either the PH must be laid
into the template or vice versa. That would produce a productivity gain that
could be a great sales point, and better justify the PH Web costs.

The upcoming version, 2.4, will let you do a much better job of prototyping
the entire application before any HTML changes have to be made. Basically,
in 2.2, you had to make HTML changes just to get a basic application that
passed data back and forth between pages. This is now handled automatically.

We are looking at further enhancements to merge the HTML but since the HTML
is simple text, with no hooks to the QDESIGN source, it's not a simple task.
All I can say is that we are looking at it for a future release.

Bob

This message may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you
have received this e-mail in error or are not the intended recipient, you
may not use, copy, disseminate or distribute it; do not open any
attachments, delete it immediately from your system and notify the sender
promptly by e-mail that you have done so. Thank you.

This message may contain privileged and/or confidential information.  If you
have received this e-mail in error or are not the intended recipient, you
may not use, copy, disseminate or distribute it; do not open any
attachments, delete it immediately from your system and notify the sender
promptly by e-mail that you have done so.  Thank you.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C31576.B3E0BC40
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>

<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4919.2200" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=164222715-08052003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Part 
of our design philosophy for PH Web was not to compete with HTML editors, either 
text based or GUI based. There are too many out there. Plus, we'd be spending a 
lot of time keeping up with the latest in HTML. Rather, we generate a template 
that should work on most browsers (at least versions 4 and up). We have talked 
about doing something in Axiant but nothing definite yet.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=164222715-08052003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=164222715-08052003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Bob</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Edis, Robert 
  [mailto:Robert.Edis@blistex.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 08, 2003 10:51 
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> powerh-l@lists.swau.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: PowerHouse in 
  the next 3 years?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=234584714-08052003>Bob 
  D.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=234584714-08052003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=234584714-08052003>In 
  Axiant there is a form that allows "drawing" of the screen.&nbsp; I.e. 
  placement and format of objects such as fields, field labels, titles, 
  etc.&nbsp; Couldn't a HTML tool bar be included there to allow the insertion 
  of HTML tags?&nbsp; Something similar but not necessarily as complex as the 
  tool bar/s found in say HomeSite.&nbsp; This tool bar would only be available 
  to the editor if the screen HTML attributes were set to 
on.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=234584714-08052003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=234584714-08052003>Blue</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma 
    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Deskin, Bob 
    [mailto:Bob.Deskin@cognos.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 07, 2003 6:52 
    PM<BR><B>To:</B> powerh-l@lists.swau.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: PowerHouse 
    in the next 3 years?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class=180264823-07052003>What I meant was that there is nothing that 
    physically connects HTML code with QDESIGN source. I was thinking of Axiant 
    or even PowerHouse Client, where PowerHouse could relate the generated form 
    to specific objects in the code. I'm not saying that you can't get most of 
    the HTML into QDESIGN as text, and we know that you've got lots of 
    techniques for generating HTML on the fly, but it's not what most people 
    expect.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class=180264823-07052003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=180264823-07052003>I 
    don't know whether we'll do a template, embed HTML in special QDESIGN 
    keywords, or some combination. But it is needed. And I don't want to go the 
    way of the painters, where the user spends lots of time making things pretty 
    without worrying if it works. PH Web is perfect for making it work and then 
    making it pretty, but maintaining things after it's pretty isn't as easy as 
    it could be.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class=180264823-07052003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class=180264823-07052003>And that's what a productivity tool's all about. 
    Taking those mundane tasks and automating them so that you have time for the 
    stuff that needs brain power. But you knew that :-)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class=180264823-07052003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class=180264823-07052003>Bob</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma 
      size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Sheehan, Richard 
      [mailto:RSheehan@ci.bellevue.wa.us]<BR><B>Sent:</B> May 7, 2003 5:30 
      PM<BR><B>To:</B> powerh-l@lists.swau.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: PowerHouse 
      in the next 3 years?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=678462121-07052003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
      size=2>Bob,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=678462121-07052003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
      size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=678462121-07052003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
      size=2>You say there are no hooks into the QDESIGN source.&nbsp; You can 
      create your own hooks using custom tags, 
      e.g..&lt;!--PH-HOOK--&gt;&lt;!--PH-END-HOOK--&gt;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=678462121-07052003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
      size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=678462121-07052003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
      size=2>Sure it is straight text, but you can add your own logic into the 
      text as desired and thus effect the rendering of the HTML as desired; or 
      if added for information only, the result could be no impact as 
      well.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=678462121-07052003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
      size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=678462121-07052003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
      size=2>Richard.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=678462121-07052003></SPAN><SPAN 
      class=678462121-07052003></SPAN><SPAN 
      class=678462121-07052003></SPAN><SPAN class=678462121-07052003><FONT 
      face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
      <P><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face=Georgia color=#0000ff size=2>Richard S 
      Sheehan</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face=Georgia 
      color=#0000ff size=2>425.452.6177</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT 
      face=Georgia color=#0000ff size=2>Business Systems Analyst 
      </FONT></SPAN><BR><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face=Georgia color=#0000ff 
      size=2>City of Bellevue, WA</FONT></SPAN> </P>
      <DIV></DIV>
      <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
      face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Deskin, Bob 
      [mailto:Bob.Deskin@Cognos.COM] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 07, 2003 
      11:48 AM<BR><B>To:</B> 'Dennis Hassell'; 
      powerh-l@lists.swau.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: PowerHouse in the next 3 
      years?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
      class=445014218-07052003>Dennis</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial 
      color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
      class=445014218-07052003>&nbsp;wrote:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><SPAN 
        class=562315816-07052003><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
        size=2>Also, for the future, providing a closer integration of the PH 
        Web product with an HTML design tool would be very helpful. Right now, 
        the styled HTML must be modified by hand to implement changes. A QDESIGN 
        recompile into HTML will not merge the HTML design with the PH logic. 
        Either the PH must be laid into the template or vice versa. That would 
        produce a productivity gain that could be a great sales point, and 
        better justify the PH Web costs.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
      class=445014218-07052003>The upcoming version, 2.4, will let you do a much 
      better job of prototyping the entire application before any HTML changes 
      have to be made. Basically, in 2.2, you had to make HTML changes just to 
      get a basic application that passed data back and forth between pages. 
      This is now handled automatically.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
      class=445014218-07052003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
      class=445014218-07052003>We are looking at further enhancements to merge 
      the HTML but since the HTML is simple text, with no hooks to the QDESIGN 
      source, it's not a simple task. All I can say is that we are looking at it 
      for a future release.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
      class=445014218-07052003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
      class=445014218-07052003>Bob</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
      size=2><SPAN class=445014218-07052003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV dir=ltr 
        style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
      <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>This message may contain privileged and/or 
      confidential information. If you have received this e-mail in error or are 
      not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy, disseminate or 
      distribute it; do not open any attachments, delete it immediately from 
      your system and notify the sender promptly by e-mail that you have done 
      so. Thank you.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>This message may contain privileged and/or 
    confidential information. If you have received this e-mail in error or are 
    not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy, disseminate or distribute 
    it; do not open any attachments, delete it immediately from your system and 
    notify the sender promptly by e-mail that you have done so. Thank 
    you.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">This message may contain privileged and/or confidential information.  If you have received this e-mail in error or are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy, disseminate or distribute it; do not open any attachments, delete it immediately from your system and notify the sender promptly by e-mail that you have done so.  Thank you.</FONT></P>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C31576.B3E0BC40--