PowerHouse.Net
Edis, Bob
BEdis@usbnc.org
Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:38:38 -0500
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>From CDW:
Microsoft Windows 2000 Advanced Server 25 user license and media - $3,397
Microsoft Windows 2000 Server single user license and media - $1,070
(actually 10 user license but that's the smallest I could find)
At www.microsoft.com <http://www.microsoft.com> (I couldn't find it on CDW)
Microsoft Visual Studio.Net Pro - $1,080
Microsoft Visual Studio.Net Enterprise Developer - $1,800
Last I hear of the price for a copy of Axiant was about $750. PowerHouse
Web about the same.
Blue
-----Original Message-----
From: bruce@schuck.com [mailto:bruce@schuck.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 7:20 PM
To: powerh-l@lists.swau.edu
Subject: RE: PowerHouse.Net
Win2k Server is about $700 US and the .Net framework is free (command line
compilation for VB and C# ir you wish to do that). If you don't want to
write your code in notepad Visual Studio.Net Pro is about the same price and
that includes the MSDE version of SQL 2000 that is distributable royalty
free. How much is Axiant or PH Web? And don't forget the OS license too. And
Oracle (or CONNX/RMS or ...) Don't get me wrong ... I used Powerhouse for 14
years and would work in it again if the opportunity rose. But it isn't
cheap. And I see no jobs advertised at all when they used to be plentiful.
"Edis, Bob" wrote
I have to defend Cognos here. It has made an effort to reduce the cost of
Axiant and PowerHouse Web. It is now comparable to VB Enterprise.
Microsoft doesn't have to make any money on ASP as to use it you must buy
and use Windows NT and IIS. Windows NT is not cheap and the profit MS makes
from it covers the cost of ASP etc.
Now how could Cognos do this?
On the BI front it has moved from just selling tools to selling solutions.
The solutions are more attractive to companies than the tools themselves
when compared with competitors. Crystal Reports does a large part of what
Impromptu can do for a fraction of the cost but when you bundle
Impromptu/IWR into a solution the toll cost is less relevant.
As I have already said, unless Cognos or its partners can provide state of
the art solutions (packages) built with PowerHouse the tool has no future.
How many PH licenses were sold because of the success of ManMan and
Visibility? How about the Health industry packages? The only *new* package
I've seen in the last few years was StarGarden (I think), a HR package from
Canada.
So Bob, can you convince Ron to get together with us to discuss (not just be
lectured to) PowerHouse in a "town meeting" setting? How can we be a part
of reviving PowerHouse? Can Cognos become more flexible and at least think
about some of the options people on this list have suggested?
Regards,
Blue
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam DeLeese [mailto:sdeleese@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 11:59 AM
To: powerh-l@lists.swau.edu
Subject: Re: PowerHouse.Net
I think maybe what Bruce was getting at, is the high cost of the product and
support. We all know that Cognos is not going to give Powerhouse Web
(Powerhouse.Net) away for free, as Microsoft does with ASP.NET. But, if the
cost for the product and support was more reasonable, and the product was
marketed with the zeal of Powerplay, the market share for PHWeb would
probably climb considerably. Maybe Cognos should consider giving PHWeb to
existing Powerhouse customers for 1/4 of the full market price, or better
yet, just give it the installed base. Microsoft gives Explorer away for
"free" and it is now the market leader. Microsoft is giving ASP.NET for
free, and soon, I believe, will be the number one development tool for the
web (if you haven't looked at yet, take a look at, read a book on it, it is
really good - but maybe not better than PHWeb!). Imagine if Cognos gave
PHWeb away to there installed Powerhouse base, and only half of the ! base
began development with it. That would be quite a lot of development. And
the more customers develop with it, the more it is discussed, the more
exposure it gets, the more development would be done with it. Maybe, if
Cognos is lucky, there entire PH base will continue to be customers using
PHWeb. Wouldn't that be nice. But, alas, it won't happen I fear. Cognos
has always charged large sums of money for the product and even more for the
support. So, much so, that the costs involved have always been a bone of
contention with management at almost every place that I have worked.
"Deskin, Bob" <Bob.Deskin@cognos.com> wrote:
What does this mean?
The next release of PowerHouse on NT will have QUICK running in a command
box. So all those PowerHouse PC people will be able to upgrade to series 8.
We have PowerHouse Web.
What is PowerHouse.Net? And is it compatible with legacy PowerHouse systems
the way Axiant and PowerHouse Web are. It's all very nice to create a new
tool, but our customers want it all. They want to move to new technology but
they don't want to loose what they have.
Bob Deskin
PowerHouse Web Product Manager, Application Development Tools, Cognos Inc.
bob.deskin@cognos.com (613) 738-1338 ext 7268 FAX: (613) 727-1178
3755 Riverside Drive P.O. Box 9707 Stn. T, Ottawa ON K1G 4K9 CANADA
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Schuck [mailto:Bruce@Schuck.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 12:022 PM
To: powerh-l@lists.swau.edu
Subject: RE: IS PowerHouse Dead
It's time for Powerhouse.Net !!!
I remember when PC Powerhouse came out. Cognos positioned and priced it as a
product to offload develop from minicomputers so it was around $2000
canadian. If they had priced it at the same level of Dbase they might have
owned that market.
It shouldn't be that hard to . enable quick and quiz.
This message may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you
have received this e-mail in error or are not the intended recipient, you
may not use, copy, disseminate or distribute it; do not open any
attachments, delete it immediately from your system and notify the sender
promptly by e-mail that you have done so. Thank you.
Regards,
Sam DeLeese
sdeleese@deleeseconsulting.com
visit us at WWW.DELEESECONSULTING.COM
_____
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=844342300-05062002>From
CDW:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=844342300-05062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=844342300-05062002>Microsoft Windows 2000 Advanced Server 25 user license
and media - $3,397</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=844342300-05062002>Microsoft Windows 2000 Server single user license and
media - $1,070 (actually 10 user license but that's the smallest I could
find)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=844342300-05062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=844342300-05062002>At <A
href="http://www.microsoft.com">www.microsoft.com</A> (I couldn't find it on
CDW)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=844342300-05062002>Microsoft Visual Studio.Net Pro -
$1,080</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=844342300-05062002>Microsoft Visual Studio.Net Enterprise Developer -
$1,800</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=844342300-05062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=844342300-05062002>Last I
hear of the price for a copy of Axiant was about $750. PowerHouse Web
about the same.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=844342300-05062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=844342300-05062002>Blue</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> bruce@schuck.com
[mailto:bruce@schuck.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 04, 2002 7:20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> powerh-l@lists.swau.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:
PowerHouse.Net<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Win2k Server is about $700 US and the .Net
framework is free (command line compilation for VB and C# ir you wish to do
that). If you don't want to write your code in notepad Visual Studio.Net Pro
is about the same price and that includes the MSDE version of SQL 2000 that is
distributable royalty free. How much is Axiant or PH Web? And don't forget the
OS license too. And Oracle (or CONNX/RMS or ...) Don't get me wrong ... I used
Powerhouse for 14 years and would work in it again if the opportunity rose.
But it isn't cheap. And I see no jobs advertised at all when they used to be
plentiful. "Edis, Bob" wrote <BR>
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4916.2300" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=697193023-04062002>I
have to defend Cognos here. It has made an effort to reduce the cost of
Axiant and PowerHouse Web. It is now comparable to VB
Enterprise.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=697193023-04062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=697193023-04062002>Microsoft doesn't have to make any money on ASP as to
use it you must buy and use Windows NT and IIS. Windows NT is not cheap
and the profit MS makes from it covers the cost of ASP etc.
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=697193023-04062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=697193023-04062002>Now
how could Cognos do this?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=697193023-04062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=697193023-04062002>On
the BI front it has moved from just selling tools to selling
solutions. The solutions are more attractive to companies than the
tools themselves when compared with competitors. Crystal Reports does a
large part of what Impromptu can do for a fraction of the cost but when you
bundle Impromptu/IWR into a solution the toll cost is less
relevant.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=697193023-04062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=697193023-04062002>As I
have already said, unless Cognos or its partners can provide state of the
art solutions (packages) built with PowerHouse the tool has no future.
How many PH licenses were sold because of the success of ManMan and
Visibility? How about the Health industry packages? The only *new*
package I've seen in the last few years was StarGarden (I think), a
HR package from Canada.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=697193023-04062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=697193023-04062002>So Bob, can you convince Ron to get together
with us to discuss (not just be lectured to) PowerHouse in a "town
meeting" setting? How can we be a part of reviving PowerHouse? Can
Cognos become more flexible and at least think about some of the options
people on this list have suggested?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=697193023-04062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=697193023-04062002>Regards,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=697193023-04062002>Blue </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Sam DeLeese
[mailto:sdeleese@yahoo.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 04, 2002 11:59
AM<BR><B>To:</B> powerh-l@lists.swau.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
PowerHouse.Net<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<P>I think maybe what Bruce was getting at, is the high cost of the product
and support. We all know that Cognos is not going to give Powerhouse
Web (Powerhouse.Net) away for free, as Microsoft does with ASP.NET.
But, if the cost for the product and support was more reasonable, and the
product was marketed with the zeal of Powerplay, the market share for PHWeb
would probably climb considerably. Maybe Cognos should consider giving
PHWeb to existing Powerhouse customers for 1/4 of the full market price, or
better yet, just give it the installed base. Microsoft gives Explorer
away for "free" and it is now the market leader. Microsoft is giving
ASP.NET for free, and soon, I believe, will be the number one development
tool for the web (if you haven't looked at yet, take a look at, read a book
on it, it is really good - but maybe not better than PHWeb!). Imagine
if Cognos gave PHWeb away to there installed Powerhouse base, and only half
of the ! base began development with it. That would be quite a lot of
development. And the more customers develop with it, the more it is
discussed, the more exposure it gets, the more development would be done
with it. Maybe, if Cognos is lucky, there entire PH base will continue
to be customers using PHWeb. Wouldn't that be nice. But, alas,
it won't happen I fear. Cognos has always charged large sums of money
for the product and even more for the support. So, much so, that the
costs involved have always been a bone of contention with management at
almost every place that I have worked.
<P> <B><I>"Deskin, Bob" <Bob.Deskin@cognos.com></I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=804301616-04062002>What does this mean?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=804301616-04062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=804301616-04062002>The next release of PowerHouse on NT will have
QUICK running in a command box. So all those PowerHouse PC people will be
able to upgrade to series 8.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=804301616-04062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=804301616-04062002>We have PowerHouse Web.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=804301616-04062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=804301616-04062002>What is PowerHouse.Net? And is it compatible with
legacy PowerHouse systems the way Axiant and PowerHouse Web are. It's all
very nice to create a new tool, but our customers want it all. They want
to move to new technology but they don't want to loose what they
have.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=804301616-04062002>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bob
Deskin
</FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>PowerHouse Web Product Manager,
Application Development Tools, Cognos Inc.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>bob.deskin@cognos.com (613) 738-1338 ext 7268 FAX: (613)
727-1178</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>3755 Riverside Drive P.O. Box
9707 Stn. T, Ottawa ON K1G 4K9 CANADA</FONT> </P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Bruce Schuck
[mailto:Bruce@Schuck.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 04, 2002 12:022
PM<BR><B>To:</B> powerh-l@lists.swau.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: IS
PowerHouse Dead<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">It's time for
Powerhouse.Net !!!</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I remember when
PC Powerhouse came out. Cognos positioned and priced it as a product to
offload develop from minicomputers so it was around $2000 canadian. If
they had priced it at the same level of Dbase they might have owned that
market.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">It shouldn't be
that hard to . enable quick and quiz.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>This message may contain privileged and/or
confidential information. If you have received this e-mail in error or are
not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy, disseminate or
distribute it; do not open any attachments, delete it immediately from
your system and notify the sender promptly by e-mail that you have done
so. Thank you.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Sam
DeLeese<BR>sdeleese@deleeseconsulting.com<BR>visit us at
WWW.DELEESECONSULTING.COM
<P><BR>
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