FW: Is PH dead / something new?
Edis, Bob
BEdis@usbnc.org
Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:06:22 -0500
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-----Original Message-----
From: george.j.wen@us.abb.com [mailto:george.j.wen@us.abb.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 9:01 AM
To: Edis, Bob
Subject: RE: Is PH dead / something new?
Good grief that's a tall order Bob! "where they are paid more and get more
work
AND
have as much fun." Here at ABB I managed (with the help of an enlightened
IS director) talk them into buying PH for our AS/400. We managed to off-
load much of the RPG work to PH. Still there's more RPG work that needs
doing than PH. There's still a lot of demand out there for it but can you
equate it to "as much fun". New developers want nothing to do with RPG
and more senior developers like myself see it as being as exciting as
watching paint dry. Yet the blue bloods who use it seem to love it - go
figure. We are also captive to the package solution. SAP is in our
future so I should prepare for that. Or should I prepare with a more
broad based skill set because it's here today laid off tomorrow. It's
all very difficult and confusing. PH could be the #1 ADT in the market
given the will and marketing but like PH on the AS/400 (a very good
product) it's gotten left behind.
Bewildered in WI
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|"Edis, Bob" <BEdis@usbnc.org> |
|06/03/2002 06:16 PM |
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To: "PowerHouse List (E-mail)" <powerh-l@lists.swau.edu>
cc: (bcc: George J. Wen/NB/USFAC/ABB)
Subject: RE: Is PH dead?
Security Level:? Internal
I have to agree - learn something new.
The big question is WHAT?
I bought Oracle stock two years ago at about USD45 a share, today it's worth
USD7.32! Two years ago Oracle seemed set to conquer the world, especially
Asia - today it's languishing and Microsoft and IBM are fast eating into its
market share.
A friend of mine dumped PowerHouse and became a Delphi expert. He had to go
back to PH to survive.
Another jumped into BI. Again he had to go back to PH.
What about Java? Two years ago Java was HOT. Rates were sky high. Now PH
contractors get paid as much or more and Java programmers are plentiful.
It's even been taken off the Australian immigration "hot" list as a needed
skill there.
If your employer wont pay for your retraining who will? I'm now doing SQL
Server DBA work but have had no formal training. To get certified would set
me back about USD8,000 and several weeks without pay. I can't afford that
and provide for a family. My BI skills are fast getting out-of-date because
I haven't worked with the tools since last July. Cognos hasn't helped by
forcing us to take and pay for its courses in order to get certified.
We don't WANT to give up on PH because we can't see where else to go, or how
to get there. It is in our self-interest to breath life into the tool, but
learn something else while doing it. :)
I like to here some stories about people who made a successful change. By
that I mean they switched from focusing on PH gigs to another technology or
discipline where they are paid more and get more work AND have as much fun.
Blue
-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Reely [mailto:darren.reely@latticesemi.com]
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 6:02 PM
To: 'powerh-l@lists.swau.edu'
Subject: Re: Is PH dead?
This has been an interesting discussion. Is PH dead? Is PH on life
support? Is there a future in PH?
If all you want to work on is maintenance then you should be fine, for a
while. People have pointed out that this market is shrinking.
If you want more out of your career, PH will not be providing it. As Sam
pointed out, knowing PH does you little good in todays market. As he has
discovered, you'll likely have to spend your own money retraining your self
so you can shift to new possibilities. Start NOW!
If your lucky, you'll be involved with the shift your company will take when
it leaves PH.
My main problem with PH is its limited distribution and interesting job
possibilities. I took my current job to learn new skills that have value to
a long career. As developers I think you have to be selfish enough to think
of your career first, and your attraction to PH later, much later.
Darren
David Morrison - Corporate wrote:
Sam,
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
We utilize PH on the AS/400 (now iSeries), here in San Diego. We're almost
certainly the only PH-AS/400 shop in the county, and maybe the only PH shop
of any platform left in the county (no PHWeb for us, of course).
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
The AS/400 is kind of like PH - it's got a lot of advantages, but is seen as
old and proprietary by many.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
David Morrison
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam DeLeese [ mailto:sdeleese@yahoo.com <mailto:sdeleese@yahoo.com> ]
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 9:40 AM
To: powerh-l@lists.swau.edu <mailto:powerh-l@lists.swau.edu>
Subject: Is PH dead?
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
Is PowerHouse Dead? Empirical evidence here in Southern California would
suggest that if it is not already dead, it is certainly on life support. I
was laid off last November, and I think I can count on one hand, (okay,
maybe both) the number of PH jobs that have been advertised. Most of these
jobs also required knowledge of Oracle or Manman, neither of which I have.
But the point is, there are vitually no jobs in SoCal for PH programmers. I
was working in an Alpha shop, and for the last year and a half, I was
working almost exclusively with PHWeb. The new management at this company,
which laid me off, has also decided that they do not want to develop anymore
web apps with PHWeb. They think it is too proprietary, they want something
more open. They think it will easier for them to hire web programmers if
what they are developing in is more main stream. Anyway, I am beginning my
8th month of this lay off, and I! have had one phone interview for a
potential PHWeb position (the company was thinking about purchasing PHWeb,
they didn't) and 1 face-to-face interview for a PH programming job, but my
lack of knowledge of Manman ultimately sunk me. I am going to be beginning
classes soon to get a certificate in Oracle DBA and programming. I learned
Powerhouse back when Cognos was still known as Quasar. I love PH and PHWeb,
but for every 1 PH ad, there are at least 15 Oracle ads. What are you going
to do? I have over 15 years of experience with PH on both OpenVMS and MPE
platforms, and I feel as if I am an endangered species, almost extinct.
If anyone in SoCal reads this, I would love to hear your take on the current
job market for PH programmers.
Regards,
Sam DeLeese
sdeleese@deleeseconsulting.com <mailto:sdeleese@deleeseconsulting.com>
visit us at WWW.DELEESECONSULTING.COM <http://WWW.DELEESECONSULTING.COM>
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D669080323-03062002>I have=20
to agree - learn something new.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D669080323-03062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D669080323-03062002>The=20
big question is WHAT?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D669080323-03062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D669080323-03062002>I=20
bought Oracle stock two years ago at about USD45 a share, today it's =
worth=20
USD7.32! Two years ago Oracle seemed set to conquer the world, =
especially=20
Asia - today it's languishing and Microsoft and IBM are fast eating =
into its=20
market share.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D669080323-03062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D669080323-03062002>A=20
friend of mine dumped PowerHouse and became a Delphi expert. He =
had to go=20
back to PH to survive.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D669080323-03062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D669080323-03062002>Another jumped into BI. Again he had =
to go back=20
to PH.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D669080323-03062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D669080323-03062002>What=20
about Java? Two years ago Java was HOT. Rates were sky =
high. =20
Now PH contractors get paid as much or more and Java programmers are=20
plentiful. It's even been taken off the Australian immigration =
"hot" list=20
as a needed skill there.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D669080323-03062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D669080323-03062002>If=20
your employer wont pay for your retraining who will? I'm now =
doing SQL=20
Server DBA work but have had no formal training. To get certified =
would=20
set me back about USD8,000 and several weeks without pay. I can't =
afford=20
that and provide for a family. My BI skills are fast getting =
out-of-date=20
because I haven't worked with the tools since last July. Cognos =
hasn't=20
helped by forcing us to take and pay for its courses in order to get=20
certified.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D669080323-03062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D669080323-03062002>We=20
don't WANT to give up on PH because we can't see where else to go, or =
how to get=20
there. It is in our self-interest to breath life into the tool, =
but learn=20
something else while doing it. :)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D669080323-03062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D669080323-03062002>I like=20
to here some stories about people who made a successful change. =
By that I=20
mean they switched from focusing on PH gigs to another technology or =
discipline=20
where they are paid more and get more work AND have as much=20
fun.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D669080323-03062002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D669080323-03062002>Blue</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Darren Reely=20
[mailto:darren.reely@latticesemi.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June =
03, 2002=20
6:02 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'powerh-l@lists.swau.edu'<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
Re: Is PH=20
dead?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>This has been an interesting =
discussion. Is PH=20
dead? Is PH on life support? Is there a future in =
PH?<BR><BR>If=20
all you want to work on is maintenance then you should be fine, for a =
while. People have pointed out that this market is =
shrinking.<BR><BR>If=20
you want more out of your career, PH will not be providing it. =
As Sam=20
pointed out, knowing PH does you little good in todays market. =
As he has=20
discovered, you'll likely have to spend your own money retraining =
your self so=20
you can shift to new possibilities. Start NOW!<BR><BR>If your =
lucky,=20
you'll be involved with the shift your company will take when it =
leaves=20
PH.<BR><BR>My main problem with PH is its limited distribution and =
interesting=20
job possibilities. I took my current job to learn new skills =
that have=20
value to a long career. As developers I think you have to be =
selfish=20
enough to think of your career first, and your attraction to PH =
later, much=20
later.<BR><BR>Darren<BR><BR><BR>David Morrison - Corporate wrote:<BR>
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<DIV class=3DSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle19><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Sam,<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle19><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><!--[if=20
!supportEmptyParas]-->=20
<!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle19><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We =
utilize PH on=20
the AS/400 (now iSeries), here in San Diego.<SPAN =
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=20
</SPAN>We're almost certainly the only PH-AS/400 shop in the =
county,=20
and maybe the only PH shop of any platform left in the county (no =
PHWeb for=20
us, of course).<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle19><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><!--[if=20
!supportEmptyParas]-->=20
<!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle19><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The =
AS/400 is kind=20
of like PH - it's got a lot of advantages, but is seen as old and=20
proprietary by many.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle19><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><!--[if=20
!supportEmptyParas]-->=20
<!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoAutoSig><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle19><font=20
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-begin'></span><span=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s =
&quot;E-mail=20
Signature&quot; <span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-separator'></span></span></font></span><![end=
if]--><FONT=20
color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy">David =
Morrison</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: =
navy"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle19><font=20
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-end'></span></span></font></span><![endif]-->=
<SPAN=20
class=3DEmailStyle19><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!--[if=20
!supportEmptyParas]-->=20
<!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DTahoma color=3Dblack=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">-----Original=20
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">From:</SPAN></B> Sam=20
DeLeese [<A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-freetext=20
=
href=3D"mailto:sdeleese@yahoo.com">mailto:sdeleese@yahoo.com</A>]<BR><B>=
<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, June 03, 2002 =
9:40=20
AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <A=20
class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated=20
=
href=3D"mailto:powerh-l@lists.swau.edu">powerh-l@lists.swau.edu</A><BR><=
B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Is PH =
dead?</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><!--[if =
!supportEmptyParas]-->=20
<!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Is =
PowerHouse Dead? =20
Empirical evidence here in Southern California would suggest that =
if it is=20
not already dead, it is certainly on life support. I was laid =
off last=20
November, and I think I can count on one hand, (okay, maybe both) =
the number=20
of PH jobs that have been advertised. Most of these jobs also =
<EM><I>required </I></EM>knowledge of Oracle or Manman, neither of =
which I=20
have. But the point is, there are vitually no jobs in SoCal =
for PH=20
programmers. I was working in an Alpha shop, and for the last =
year and=20
a half, I was working almost exclusively with PHWeb. The new=20
management at this company, which laid me off, has also decided =
that they do=20
not want to develop anymore web apps with PHWeb. They think =
it is too=20
proprietary, they want something more open. They think it =
will easier=20
for them to hire web programmers if what they are developing in is =
more main=20
stream. Anyway, I am beginning my 8th month of this lay off, =
and I!=20
have had one phone interview for a potential PHWeb position (the =
company was=20
thinking about purchasing PHWeb, they didn't) and 1 face-to-face =
interview=20
for a PH programming job, but my lack of knowledge of Manman =
ultimately sunk=20
me. I am going to be beginning classes soon to get a =
certificate in=20
Oracle DBA and programming. I learned Powerhouse back when =
Cognos was=20
still known as Quasar. I love PH and PHWeb, but for every 1 =
PH ad,=20
there are at least 15 Oracle ads. What are you going to =
do? I=20
have over 15 years of experience with PH on both OpenVMS and MPE =
platforms,=20
and I feel as if I am an endangered species, almost extinct.=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">If anyone in =
SoCal reads=20
this, I would love to hear your take on the current job market for =
PH=20
programmers.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: =
black"><BR><BR><BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Sam=20
DeLeese<BR><A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated=20
=
href=3D"mailto:sdeleese@deleeseconsulting.com">sdeleese@deleeseconsultin=
g.com</A><BR>visit=20
us at <A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated=20
=
href=3D"http://WWW.DELEESECONSULTING.COM">WWW.DELEESECONSULTING.COM</A><=
/SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: =
black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><!--[if=20
!supportEmptyParas]--> =
<!--[endif]--></SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: =
black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-ALIGN: =
center"=20
align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">
<HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D1>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Do You=20
Yahoo!?</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: =
black"><BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://rd.yahoo.com/welcome/*http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com">Yaho=
o!</A>=20
- Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: =
black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>=
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