Conversion questions (from Powerhouse to ?????)

[Jon Hawks]

That's not so wild, but a professor?

--- "Taber, Phil" <prta@lubrizol.com> wrote:
> Here is a wild idea available only to you in a
> university setting.  Approach
> the department that houses the business computing
> education at the
> university.  Suggest they find a faculty member from
> another university that
> is looking for a sabbatical opportunity.  Have
> her/him come in as Leader of
> the project and have the upper level business
> programming majors staff the
> project.  You should define the toolset they are to
> use (I suggest making it
> an intranet based front end with a relational
> database back end).  
> 
> Of course there are risks involved with this
> approach, but ...
> 
> Phil Taber
> Phone: (440) 943-1200 x 3892
> Email: prta@lubrizol.com
> 
> 
> 	-----Original Message-----
> 	From:	Jon Hawks
> [SMTP:hawksj%yahoo.com@interlockp.lubrizol.com]
> 	Sent:	Wednesday, June 21, 2000 10:18 AM
> 	To:	Glenn Waters;
> powerh-l%sphere.swau.edu@interlockp.lubrizol.com
> 	Subject:	Re: Conversion questions (from Powerhouse
> to ?????)
> 
> 	For what it's worth. I supported many groups
> involved
> 	with client/server solutions. What took 1-3 people,
> 	using Powerhouse, sensible detail design and the
> 	formation a normalized database, denormalized to
> fit
> 	what made sense (advice from the modeling guru's),
> 	(deep breath, now), took each shop 15 people, to
> write
> 	and support techno-weeny systems, that did not
> 	properly validate data, the users had to be
> instructed
> 	what data to enter, and the endless debate over
> vbasic
> 	vs java, both interpretive and limited. 
> 	Corba using IDL became a worthless arguement, still
> 	tied up in the OMG, and vendors spawning off their
> own
> 	versions of metadata interfacing. 
> 	Middleware is the solution! was the cry from the
> 	unknowing and hopeful, who soon found they had to
> hire
> 	expensive consultants and the vendor, in order to
> 	EMBED the calls within some form of C(+ or -), or
> 	Java. 
> 	Non-standard screen interfaces appeared depending
> upon
> 	the programmer. 
> 	Interfacing with Oracle became a slow and
> burdensome
> 	activity. Some groups took advice to use the OCI
> and
> 	got better results. 
> 	Many systems were built with data models forged
> under
> 	the limits of ERwin, or the flash of System
> Architect,
> 	both, without the essential chalk-talk, normalized
> for
> 	SQL, though. View upon view, appeared with most
> 	"architects" opting to stay at the superficial
> level
> 	of design, and only give the user what they had in
> 	their spreadsheets. But, in a database! Oracle,
> even. 
> 	Oracle is played up, too much. It sucks in many
> areas,
> 	and the consulting is about as useful as used
> toilet
> 	paper. O8something, came from Rdb, the DEC product,
> 	when Oracle bought the database portion from
> Digital,
> 	when the now past CEO was into cutting of his
> limbs,
> 	to give the appearance of a healthy business
> profit. 
> 
> 	If you hire certain consultants, they will sell you
> on
> 	the benefits they know.
> 	If you look to Powerhouse-heads, you'll get the
> limits
> 	of their imagination, but not necessarily what you
> 	need. And, they get to hang around as consultants,
> as
> 	long as they make nice.
> 
> 	On the other hand, you need help with making a new
> 	system. An common industry designer may fail to
> 	produce what you need, not really knowing set logic
> 	and design. A P-house person thinks in Qk/Qz/Qtp,
> 	often, but will rail otherwise. 
> 
> 	I like your dilemma. But, I'm not being paid to
> solve
> 	it. (grin!).
> 
> 	I hope this provides insight. I've worked in
> Oxford,
> 	NC for Revlon (Yes, it's true Cindy and crew are
> the
> 	only attractive people there, and they don't really
> 	work for Revlon). I've been in Charlotte, with a
> 	DirecTv virtual corp. Another useless, but money
> 	making venture, spawned under Cobol. You're up
> against
> 	a low talent pool. 
> 
> 	See ya.
> 
> 	--- Glenn Waters <Glenn_Waters@ncsu.edu> wrote:
> 	> Having read the threads through the list-serv I
> came
> 	> across a number of conversion questions, the
> 	> majority were answered with (and I paraphrase a
> bit)
> 	> "don't do it", "it's more trouble then it was
> 	> worth","plan for it taking a lot longer" and many
> 	> other variations on these. Pretty much across the
> 	> board negative! Well we are in the un-enviable
> 	> position of maybe having to convert systems,
> perhaps
> 	> away from Powerhouse totally. Explanation
> follows...
> 	> 
> 	> We are running 7.33 Powerhouse on a DG Unix
> platform
> 	> using Interbase. The system that has been built
> up
> 	> through the years is a heavily customized, very
> 	> specialized system, that runs this place pretty
> 	> well. We received notice from Cognos that
> Interbase
> 	> support is being dropped at the end of the year
> 	> (because its going open source!?!), so naturally
> the
> 	> alarm bells have gone off and we are starting to
> see
> 	> what we might be able to do. Well if it were only
> 	> that simple we might be ok, but there is more.
> They
> 	> developed and have considerable interfaces built
> 	> using Powerhouse PC! Which for any of you not
> aware
> 	> is also sort of on the "fringe" of support (and
> 	> still uses 16 bit drivers...). In addition to all
> of
> 	> this, this is an educational institution and
> funding
> 	> is always an issue.
> 	> 
> 	> So we are exploring alternatives right now. I'll
> 	> list them below, and I'd be very interested in
> any
> 	> input from you folks on our ideas, and any other
> 	> ideas you may have.
> 	> 1. Set up Oracle on the DG box. This solves the
> 	> Interbase problem, and should involve only a
> minimal
> 	> amount of pain. Keep running our current
> 	> applications, converted as needed for Oracle.It
> 	> doesn't solve our Powerhouse PC problem, but will
> 	> buy us some time.
> 	> 2. Oracle on a Sun box. Similar to the idea
> above.
> 	> Again still running our Powerhouse
> applications.The
> 	> main push for this idea is the university has
> 	> standardized on Sun (we could get them
> "cheaper"),
> 	> and would solve some non powerhouse related
> issues.
> 	> 3. Convert our applications to Java. A total
> 	> conversion off Powerhouse. Probably to Oracle DB,
> on
> 	> a Sun box. Yes I understand how tough it would be
> 	> :-) Advantages of Java (in a University setting)
> is
> 	> that any workstation we have could (in theory)
> run
> 	> the programs. Currently only Windows boxes have
> 	> access to the applications because of the
> Powerhouse
> 	> PC front end. This would solve the DB issue, and
> the
> 	> Powerhouse PC issue, but the "cost" would be the
> 	> highest.
> 	> 4. Finally some "creative" ideas were brought up,
> 	> like putting a Java "wrapper" around the current
> 
=== message truncated ===


=====
Jon Jared Hawks
Partnership is a privilege.  Don't abuse it.
Business Intelligence Applications
Anything you read from Jon (Jared) Hawks is his own
expressed opinion.

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