Migrating from PH to Java / RDBMS

[Walker, Chris]

I'm sure Roger's code is exemplary but...  

I bet I'm not the only Powerhouse developer who has had reason to curse the
"working screens" produced by programmers who have had several years'
experience in other languages and a few days' PH experience.  (I used to be
one of these myself, so I'm permitted to be rude).  Lots of mysterious
procedural code, designer files used for ulterior purposes, desperate
attempts to make PH behave like the 3GL you know and love.  In short, a
support nightmare.

Mind you, I bet that's nothing to the lash-up that an innocent can produce
in Jave.  And somebody mentioned Dibol - some of the worst days of my life
have been spent trying to disentangle Dibol-11 code.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kesterson, Roger [mailto:Roger.Kesterson@ryobiaz.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 4:40 PM
> To: powerh-l@sphere.swau.edu
> Subject: RE: Migrating from PH to Java / RDBMS
> 
> 
> OK, I was referring to programmers who have had several years 
> experience in
> other languages.  And by productive, I meant able to create 
> working screens
> to solve real-life problems, even if they are simple ones at first.
> Admittedly, it would require much referring to manuals in the 
> beginning, and
> asking questions of other more experienced PH people 
> (something I didn't
> have the luxury of when I came here).
> 
> But compare that to Java.  The syntax alone is much more 
> complex.  Not to
> mention all that object oriented stuff.  I attended a 
> week-long seminar on
> Java, with a week of object oriented analysis and design 
> before that.  I
> didn't come away from all that feeling like I was ready to 
> start writing
> usable programs.
> 
> My only point is that Java, to reach an equal level of 
> proficiency, has a
> much longer learning curve.  Are you suggesting that is not the case?
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mike Palandri [mailto:palandri@4j.lane.edu]
> > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 8:30 AM
> > To: powerh-l@sphere.swau.edu
> > Subject: RE: Migrating from PH to Java / RDBMS
> > 
> > 
> > At 07:23 AM 08/07/2000 -0700, Kesterson, Roger wrote:
> > >Your companies must have very large IS budgets...lucky you!  
> > If they can
> > >afford to throw vast amounts of money at these projects, 
> > more power to them.
> > >Most of us are not fortunate enough to work for companies 
> like that.
> > >
> > >One thing you seem to be forgetting, however, is the 
> > difference when hiring
> > >a programmer who has never seem PowerHouse vs. hiring one 
> > who has never seen
> > >Java.  If you can't find any PH programmers, you can train 
> > someone in a
> > >matter of days and they will be productive.  Try that with Java!
> > 
> > Wow.  A matter of days.   I don't believe I am unusually 
> > dense, however it took me a good year before I was 
> > proficient/productive in PH, and the better part of three 
> > years before I felt that I had reached a "journeyman" level 
> > of experitise.    (I also had the advantage of working next 
> > door to an experienced PH programmer who was kind enough to 
> > tolerate a never ending list of questions.)
> > 
> > Granted, an programmer experienced in other languages would 
> > quickly grasp the PH processing model and soon be able to 
> > write some of the simple reports, runs, and screens such as 
> > those presented in the beginning and intermediate PH classes. 
> >  However, over the years it has been my experience that the 
> > greatest challenge of any non-trivial PH programming effort 
> > requires figuring out how to make real world processing needs 
> > and data structures fit into the PH mold.  This can be a time 
> > consuming process and IMO, it takes tackling several such 
> > problems before you even develop a feel for how to get started.
> > 
> > It seems like it would be far longer than a "matter of days" 
> > before a new PH programmer could objectively called 
> > "productive."   (I suppose it all depends on what is being 
> > produced ;^) )
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Mike
> > 
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