Hello? <vent>
Neil Harvey
neil@nha.co.za
Wed, 18 Nov 1998 06:05:25 +0200
PowerHouse friends
>From the October-December SupportLink (Vol 8. Number 4):-
--------------
Ron Zambonini,
President and CEO
On the future of Cognos Application Development Tools......
"Let me make a statement to PowerHouse customers: Cognos will support
PowerHouse for the next 200 years. You should not be concerned. Our
application development tools customers want something robust to take
them through the year 2000 with their PowerHouse applications.
They see us supporting them and they see us delivering versions that
allow them to address the year 2000 issue, and they're sticking with us.
And I can pledge my support. This is a huge business for Cognos - close
to $70 million last year - and we are really focused on keeping it."
---------------
Well, it doesn't come much clearer than that, to my mind.
Regards
Neil Harvey
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Lee [mailto:mclsys@home.com]
Sent: 17 November 1998 09:17
To: David Sowder
Cc: Hamilton, Allison; 'powerh-l@lists.swau.edu'; 'Robert J.M. Edis'
Subject: Re: Hello? <vent>
Just some thoughts:
With all this negativity about Cognos pricing of it's Powerhouse
products, it
makes complete sense why Cognos is allowing the BI tools to become the
focus of
their business. My bet is, if they could drop Powerhouse, that they
would.
With the BI tools being about $1000 a pop, it would seem to reflect the
pricing
that most people on this list were asking for. A nice cheap product that
us
developers could purchase and create our own, resaleable, products from.
Unfortunately I don't think we're in a position of power here. Cognos
has found
this much better niche to be in, but seems forced to still support
Powerhouse
because they've got 20,000+ installs.
I still think Powerhouse is a superior product, but I don't know if I
would react
any differently, business-wise, if I were in their shoes. Be careful
what you ask
for, you might get it.
Michael (just a Cognos pawn) Lee
MCL Systems Inc.
ps. These are today's thoughts, tomorrow's could be completely
different...
David Sowder wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Hamilton, Allison wrote:
> > Just two cents from a Cognos person.... many of us lurkers on this
list are
> > techie types. I know that I personally try to stay as far away from
pricing
> > issues as I can... so I can't really contribute to that part of the
> > discussion.
> >
> > As to publishing bug lists - another part of the ongoing discussion.
I know
> > of no attempt to hide bugs that our products have from our
customers.
> > Publishing such information does take time and people power.
Perhaps we
> > just haven't allocated enough resources to handle the task to the
level that
> > people would like. It would be a challenge keeping up with lists
for the
> > wide variety of versions that we have out there, and the number of
platforms
> > that we support. I don't think it's our intent to keep you in the
dark, but
> > shedding light on the subject may be more complex that it appears
from the
> > outside.
> > I'm doing what I can from the inside to see it happen...
> > Allison Hamilton
> > Disclaimer.... Just my two cents worth... and as always, my own
views are
> > not necessarily those of my employer.
>
> Perhaps the easiest way to share problem/bug reports with the user
> community would be to follow the model used by some Open Source
developers
> where the bug report database is a publicly accessible web page, used
by
> both users and product developers. I believe http://www.mozilla.org/
is
> using such a system, though Cognos' implementation could be from
something
> as simple as a nightly generated text file report with the output
placed
> in a web accessible location all the way to a completely interactive
bug
> reporting/tracking system either from Open Source software or opening
up
> Cognos' internal bug tracking database to public read and submit use.
>
> I've been using the Powerhouse 4GL for 7 years, though now I'm no
longer
> with that part of our organization. I do know however, that our
> organization is looking very seriously at alternatives because of the
> pricing of Cognos' product and the perceived web unfriendliness of the
> Cognos offering. Perhaps the web extensions will address our
> organizations web access needs, although the cost of the extra product
is
> discouraging, mixed with the perception of the current in house
developers
> that Powerhouse doesn't provide the ease of development that someone
else
> in this thread mentioned was responsible for 1/3 the "normal"
development
> time.
>
> In my 7 years working with Cognos products, I have never dealt with
the
> money end of things, only as a developer using the Powerhouse 4GL
product
> for in-house software. I think I can easily say this though:
> Cognos probably has a pricing problem if a recurring issue
> brought up by users of their product is the cost. This combined
> with the relative unpopularity of Cognos products compared to the
> "everywhere" popularity of products such as PowerBuilder and the
> whole Microsoft mess, makes me think that Cognos has a
> pricing/marketing problem possibly no different than that of DEC
> and Apple. DEC (VMS/VAX/Alpha) and Apple (Macintosh) users know
> that their systems are obviously superior to the likes of
> Windows NT and Windows 95/98, but the Microsoft stuff costs less
> and is marketed must more aggressively, which is why not many
> have DEC and Apple stuff compared to Microsoft's dominance. I
> like Powerhouse very much and I think Cognos needs to look at
> this problem with intensity if it wants to grow long term.
>
> Porting to Linux and following the way of some other companies in
releasing
> (for free or next to nothing) watered down tastes (Lite versions,
etc.) to
> gain exposure is a good idea, but that's another topic all together.
>
> Users will use what they like the most and can afford at the same
time.
> Those are the challenges Cognos needs to make sure they meet.
>
> > > ----------
> > > From: Robert J.M. Edis[SMTP:Robert.Edis@creatcomp.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 29, 1998 1:10 PM
> > > To: 'powerh-l@lists.swau.edu'
> > > Subject: RE: Hello? <vent>
> > >
> > > G'day all
> > >
> > > How come the Cognos people have been so quiet on this issue in
this
> > > forum?
> > >
> > > My understanding is that software pricing is a complex issue
taking into
> > > account a) what the consumer will pay, b) how much it costs to
create
> > > and support the product and c) what competitors are charging.
> > >
> > > What a product is worth to a customer is based on more than just
its
> > > purchase price. Besides that and support charges are "can I find
people
> > > who know this product and what do THEY cost?", "How robust will my
> > > application be if made with this product instead of another?",
"How
> > > quick can I build/upgrade my application in this product vs
another?",
> > > etc.
> > >
> > > I have heard a lot of anecdotal evidence to show that an
application can
> > > be created in PowerHouse in 1/3 to 1/5 the time it takes in other
tools.
> > > Given all other factors (people costs, training, hardware, etc)
being
> > > equal this translates into significant cost savings as the product
> > > purchase and support charges are only a small part of a project's
> > > budget.
> > >
> > > My gripe is not what Cognos charges client sites for production
licenses
> > > but what it charges for development licenses. VB et. al. are
affordable
> > > to a large range of developers and are therefore more popular,
> > > irrespective of how good a product it is for large scale
application
> > > development. Cognos NEEDS to build developer support as it is
from this
> > > group that purchase decision makers will arise (or be persistant
> > > lobbists).
> > >
> > > Axiant is a good tool but costs too much for the average developer
to
> > > buy and try. Cognos should release different versions of the
package.
> > > E.g. a cut down version with no migration tools and SQL database
for
> > > under $250, a 'professional' version with additional tools and
limited
> > > support for under $600 and the full 'enterprise' version for under
> > > $2,000 (all USD). These prices are more in line with VB, Delpi,
> > > PowerBuilder, etc.
> > >
> > > Enough from me, over to you.
> > >
> > > Blue
>
> --
> David R. Sowder Primary Address:
sowderd@swau.edu
> Network Manager/Lead Software Technician HyperNet Related:
davids@hpnc.com
> Southwestern Adventist University Network
Engineer
> http://www2.swau.edu/~davids/ Hypernet
Communications Inc.
>
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