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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Karen writes:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>… . By my calculation, it would cost 2 - 5M to replace. Inexpensive to maintain. With that kind of financial incentive, PH will be around a long time. …”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>This makes sense, however, it does not ensure anything. I have seen a full gamut of behaviors that would contradict this. Here are a few examples:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>One prospect hired their web content developer to “completely replace” a working application in 6 months because the developers assured them that the 300 program project could be replaced in that amount of time. This was done against the advice of the existing developer and, initially, without consulting her. 4 months into the project the web developer asked the programmer for a printout of the database structures. They were TurboIMAGE schema’s so they needed the HP 3000 developer to explain them. The VP running the project who hired the web developers suggested that they print out all of the data in the database and have volunteers do the data entry. When the programmer pointed out that there could be lots of errors she stopped getting invited to the meetings. I last heard that the system was finally going into testing 2 years late. What did that cost? This was a non-profit and they did it to save money! Also, as an extra incentive they would have nice web screens instead of those dull terminal screens. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Another example, is a working system that might be replaced for about $80 million dollars because it does not comply with “best practices”. Best practice for this particular application is to use a package. The existing application works, and it is relatively inexpensive to maintain.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>3.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Another was an S&L that was acquired by another larger company in the late 1990’s. The CIO was in his early 30’s and wanted to get rid of anything old. They had the money at the time, so he got his way. BTW, the company did not survive the downturn. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>4.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Several other examples involve large ERP implementations such as SAP due to either corporate mandate or mergers. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>There are others. The ERP ones can perhaps be explained away, however, some of these cannot. Rational reasons and sensibility only matter sometimes. Perhaps at your company, it might be the usual thing and that’s why you expect it. It is not done that way everywhere. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Charles Finley<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(619) 795-0720<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Karen Barrett [mailto:kbarrett00@hotmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 01, 2012 1:46 PM<br><b>To:</b> PowerhouseList Post<br><b>Subject:</b> PH future<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>We use a PH system for 24/7 WIP. Been running great since the 80's and still developing on it. By my calculation, it would cost 2 - 5M to replace. Inexpensive to maintain. With that kind of financial incentive, PH will be around a long time. As for the programmers getting grey, PH is easy to learn.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Karen<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>> From: <a href="mailto:powerh-l-request@lists.sowder.com">powerh-l-request@lists.sowder.com</a><br>> Subject: powerh-l Digest, Vol 83, Issue 2<br>> To: <a href="mailto:powerh-l@lists.sowder.com">powerh-l@lists.sowder.com</a><br>> Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 12:00:03 -0500<br>> <br>> Send powerh-l mailing list submissions to<br>> <a href="mailto:powerh-l@lists.sowder.com">powerh-l@lists.sowder.com</a><br>> <br>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>> <a href="http://lists.sowder.com/mailman/listinfo/powerh-l">http://lists.sowder.com/mailman/listinfo/powerh-l</a><br>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>> <a href="mailto:powerh-l-request@lists.sowder.com">powerh-l-request@lists.sowder.com</a><br>> <br>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>> <a href="mailto:powerh-l-owner@lists.sowder.com">powerh-l-owner@lists.sowder.com</a><br>> <br>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>> than "Re: Contents of powerh-l digest..."<br>> <br>> <br>> Today's Topics:<br>> <br>> 1. Re:Is there a future for PowerHouse? (Bob Deskin)<br>> <br>> <br>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> <br>> Message: 1<br>> Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 11:05:22 -0400<br>> From: Bob Deskin <<a href="mailto:Bob.Deskin@ca.ibm.com">Bob.Deskin@ca.ibm.com</a>><br>> Subject: Re: Is there a future for PowerHouse?<br>> To: JA Vaughn Smith <<a href="mailto:javrsmith@gmail.com">javrsmith@gmail.com</a>><br>> Cc: <a href="mailto:powerh-l-bounces+bob.deskin=ca.ibm.com@lists.sowder.com">powerh-l-bounces+bob.deskin=ca.ibm.com@lists.sowder.com</a>,<br>> <a href="mailto:powerh-l@lists.sowder.com">powerh-l@lists.sowder.com</a><br>> Message-ID:<br>> <<a href="mailto:OF9BB2767D.BCC800A4-ON852579F1.005205FE-852579F1.0052E4B0@ca.ibm.com">OF9BB2767D.BCC800A4-ON852579F1.005205FE-852579F1.0052E4B0@ca.ibm.com</a>><br>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"<br>> <br>> Vaughn told about his plan to post this. I explained that I can only reply <br>> with public information and clarification. I cannot express my opinions <br>> nor can I offer any conjecture. As you probably know, I've been working <br>> with PowerHouse since 1980 and I have very little gray hair. I have no <br>> idea if the two are related.<br>> <br>> Regarding the AS/400 version, Cognos matured PowerHouse on AS/400 in 1994. <br>> It has been on Vintage Support ever since. While Vintage Support does not <br>> provide for any development support, it does allow customers with a legal <br>> support requirement to continue to use PowerHouse. PowerHouse on MPE/iX is <br>> also on Vintage Support. A full list of the supported versions can be <br>> found here: <br>> <a href="http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?rs=3528&uid=swg27014713">http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?rs=3528&uid=swg27014713</a> and our <br>> supported software environments here: <br>> <a href="http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?rs=3626&uid=swg27014142">http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?rs=3626&uid=swg27014142</a><br>> <br>> Bob<br>> <br>> Bob Deskin<br>> Senior Product Manager<br>> IBM Cognos Application Development Tools<br>> IBM Canada<br>> +1 613-356-5633<br>> <a href="mailto:bob.deskin@ca.ibm.com">bob.deskin@ca.ibm.com</a><br>> <a href="http://www.ibm.com/software/data/cognos/products/powerhouse/">http://www.ibm.com/software/data/cognos/products/powerhouse/</a><br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> From: JA Vaughn Smith <<a href="mailto:javrsmith@gmail.com">javrsmith@gmail.com</a>><br>> To: <a href="mailto:powerh-l@lists.sowder.com">powerh-l@lists.sowder.com</a><br>> Date: 2012-05-01 10:12 AM<br>> Subject: Is there a future for PowerHouse?<br>> Sent by: <a href="mailto:powerh-l-bounces+bob.deskin=ca.ibm.com@lists.sowder.com">powerh-l-bounces+bob.deskin=ca.ibm.com@lists.sowder.com</a><br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> I have been back on an OpenVMS system using PowerHouse, (PH), for 4 months <br>> now. In that time, I have been re-amazed at the things I can do with <br>> Qdesign, QTP and Quiz. Before this year, I did some work learning PHP and <br>> Python with mySQL, typical Windows development tools. PH has them beat <br>> from a productivity standpoint, and not by just a bit either.<br>> <br>> Realistically, what future does PowerHouse have? The products are 30+ <br>> years old but they still perfrom quite well on the right hardware. With <br>> the exception of Unix and Windows, they run on antiquated hardware, <br>> though. The HP 3000 MPE is done; HP offers help to move these sites to <br>> Unix or Windows platforms. OpenVMS sites can move to HP Itanium machines <br>> which are about 12 years old and have a very uncertain future. PH used to <br>> run on IBM AS/400. What's up with that these days? Unix and Windows remain <br>> viable platforms for PowerHouse deployment since you can actually buy <br>> modern servers from various manufacturers.<br>> <br>> What about the future of PowerHouse itself? IBM has stated that PH will <br>> remain supported as long asit makes business sense. That said, there are <br>> no future updates planned at this time. The longstanding problems remain: <br>> only 31 files in a Qdesign screen<br>> popular databases are unsupported, (mySQL, others?)<br>> PH Windows uses ODBC 2.5 from 1994. Version 3.8 is now current.<br>> POW, the automated interface to the PDL dictionary, ships with OpenVMS <br>> only<br>> PH screens look old. Users must learn specific keyboard commands<br>> Web interface must be done with the PH Web add on which generates code <br>> that usually requires further modifications to address design <br>> requirements.<br>> poor runtime error notifications<br>> very limited number of PH sites, and declining<br>> extremely limited number of Axiant sites<br>> many, (most, all?), PH programmers have grey hair<br>> It is my belief that IBM has a great product with PowerHouse. I also <br>> believe that they barely understand this fact and that the corporation <br>> purchased Cognos for the great business intelligence tools,mainly. The <br>> PowerHouse business has to have seen substantial decline for IBM over the <br>> years. How many more sites can convert to other development environments, <br>> reducing IBM's revenue, before they shut down Cognos?<br>> Sincerely,<br>> Vaughn Smith<br>> Canada--<br>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =<br>> Mailing list: <a href="mailto:powerh-l@lists.sowder.com">powerh-l@lists.sowder.com</a><br>> Subscribe: 'subscribe' in message body to <br>> <a href="mailto:powerh-l-request@lists.sowder.com">powerh-l-request@lists.sowder.com</a><br>> Unsubscribe: 'unsubscribe &lt;password&gt;' in message body to <br>> <a href="mailto:powerh-l-request@lists.sowder.com">powerh-l-request@lists.sowder.com</a><br>> <a href="http://lists.sowder.com/mailman/listinfo/powerh-l">http://lists.sowder.com/mailman/listinfo/powerh-l</a><br>> This list is closed, thus to post to the list you must be a subscriber.<br>> Add 'site:lists.sowder.com powerh-l' to your search terms to search the <br>> list archive at Google.<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> ------------------------------<br>> <br>> --<br>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =<br>> Mailing list: <a href="mailto:powerh-l@lists.sowder.com">powerh-l@lists.sowder.com</a><br>> Subscribe: &quot;subscribe&quot; in message body to <a href="mailto:powerh-l-request@lists.sowder.com">powerh-l-request@lists.sowder.com</a><br>> Unsubscribe: &quot;unsubscribe &lt;password&gt;&quot; in message body to <a href="mailto:powerh-l-request@lists.sowder.com">powerh-l-request@lists.sowder.com</a><br>> <a href="http://lists.sowder.com/mailman/listinfo/powerh-l">http://lists.sowder.com/mailman/listinfo/powerh-l</a><br>> This list is closed, thus to post to the list you must be a subscriber.<br>> Add 'site:lists.sowder.com powerh-l' to your search terms to search the list archive at Google.<br>> <br>> End of powerh-l Digest, Vol 83, Issue 2<br>> ***************************************<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>